The Information's TITV
00:11:10 · Akash Pasricha, Jyoti Mann
[00:11:10] S0: It's like you're... It's like... I feel like this is like a... One of those auctions, you know? You're ready to auction it off. I'll be walking through a little bit of the history here. Meta, have we known that it's been interested in robotics for quite some time? How long has this been going on for? [00:11:28] S2: Yeah, that's right. So last year, early last year, they sort of kickstarted this whole push with hiring the former CEO of Cruise and starting to build up this team of Meta robotics studio, sits within their hardware and AI devices lab, Reality Labs. So they have been working on this pretty quietly over the last year or so and they really sort of see this as a way to get something that's in people's homes that can help them with their chores And it's something that CTO Andrew Bosworth has spoken about internally, is it being a sort of physical embodiment of their AI agent news. So it can be an assistant as well as help people with chores and things like that. [00:12:13] S0: Tell me, the China based company that they're working on with this, what is that company? What do we know about them? [00:12:20] S2: So Fourier is a Shanghai based robotics company, and they've been building robots for years, specifically for the care industry, so to help with things like physical rehabilitation. So it's something that they've learned to do and they have all the hardware engineering experience and the ability to build and iterate very quickly, hence why they were able to build this prototype with Meta in just three months.
00:12:20 · Jyoti Mann, Akash Pasricha
[00:12:20] S2: So Fourier is a Shanghai based robotics company, and they've been building robots for years, specifically for the care industry, so to help with things like physical rehabilitation. So it's something that they've learned to do and they have all the hardware engineering experience and the ability to build and iterate very quickly, hence why they were able to build this prototype with Meta in just three months. [00:12:44] S0: And are The US and China governments okay that the companies are collaborating like this? [00:12:50] S2: Well, that's where this gets really interesting. Neither government is necessarily thrilled about the broader implications of such a cooperation, but Meta's currently just saying this is an internal research and experimentation project. It doesn't have any plans to sell these particular robots. But Washington has become a lot more concerned about Chinese robotics technology entering the American market. So back in the summer we saw the FCC already kind of restrict imports of new foreign made humanoid robots and China was the primary target of those restrictions. And Beijing meanwhile sort of sees robotics as a strategic industry, something that they have been vocal about for years in terms of wanting to dominate globally. So you've got American companies wanting this Chinese manufacturing expertise, but American policymakers are increasingly trying to limit that dependence on China.
00:12:50 · Jyoti Mann, Akash Pasricha
[00:12:50] S2: Well, that's where this gets really interesting. Neither government is necessarily thrilled about the broader implications of such a cooperation, but Meta's currently just saying this is an internal research and experimentation project. It doesn't have any plans to sell these particular robots. But Washington has become a lot more concerned about Chinese robotics technology entering the American market. So back in the summer we saw the FCC already kind of restrict imports of new foreign made humanoid robots and China was the primary target of those restrictions. And Beijing meanwhile sort of sees robotics as a strategic industry, something that they have been vocal about for years in terms of wanting to dominate globally. So you've got American companies wanting this Chinese manufacturing expertise, but American policymakers are increasingly trying to limit that dependence on China. [00:13:44] S0: Right. China's robotics sector obviously has been a big story that we've reported on extensively as well. Tell me, do we have a second prototype, I guess, that Meta is working on? What do we know about this second prototype? Is there at all? A timeline here on when this could at all be released, even though you just mentioned that right now it's solely just for R and D purposes?
00:13:44 · Akash Pasricha, Jyoti Mann
[00:13:44] S0: Right. China's robotics sector obviously has been a big story that we've reported on extensively as well. Tell me, do we have a second prototype, I guess, that Meta is working on? What do we know about this second prototype? Is there at all? A timeline here on when this could at all be released, even though you just mentioned that right now it's solely just for R and D purposes? [00:14:09] S2: That's right. So they haven't yet set a kind of target deadline for when they hope to eventually release it. They're still very much in the experimentation phase and building these prototypes and trying to improve its capabilities so that when they actually have something ready to launch in market, it will be very helpful to general consumers. But they started working on what is called Max two in September, so it's gonna have a totally redesigned torso and hands which can have better manipulation skills and I'm told a projector which could potentially display visual content and also have sensors which will help the robot to navigate going up and down stairs. And I believe it will take them around three months for this prototype as well, so by December time I think we might have an idea of how that is going.
00:14:09 · Jyoti Mann, Akash Pasricha
[00:14:09] S2: That's right. So they haven't yet set a kind of target deadline for when they hope to eventually release it. They're still very much in the experimentation phase and building these prototypes and trying to improve its capabilities so that when they actually have something ready to launch in market, it will be very helpful to general consumers. But they started working on what is called Max two in September, so it's gonna have a totally redesigned torso and hands which can have better manipulation skills and I'm told a projector which could potentially display visual content and also have sensors which will help the robot to navigate going up and down stairs. And I believe it will take them around three months for this prototype as well, so by December time I think we might have an idea of how that is going. [00:15:01] S0: And I'm thinking about the competition here. Optimus, obviously, from Tesla is sort of the loudest humanoid player in all this. We were just talking to Aaron Tilley about Apple's robotics ambitions. How far do you think Meta wants to go with this? Could we see an acquisition coming down the line here to really ramp up their efforts to move into this space? Is this still something that is very R and D focused, something that's happening in the background? What's the level of priority here, you think?
00:15:01 · Akash Pasricha, Jyoti Mann
[00:15:01] S0: And I'm thinking about the competition here. Optimus, obviously, from Tesla is sort of the loudest humanoid player in all this. We were just talking to Aaron Tilley about Apple's robotics ambitions. How far do you think Meta wants to go with this? Could we see an acquisition coming down the line here to really ramp up their efforts to move into this space? Is this still something that is very R and D focused, something that's happening in the background? What's the level of priority here, you think? [00:15:35] S2: Yeah, I mean, wouldn't rule out an acquisition, but I think with Meta Strategy it's more than just simply buying a robotics company. I mean, they already acquired Assured Robotics Intelligence earlier this year which builds models to train robots. So it's possible that they are just wanting to build the operating system and sell that and then potentially partner with another company in The US to build the hardware. But you have to remember that Meta has enormous resources. Not only do they have the AI talent, they've got experience building consumer platforms, so really they just need the hardware expertise and the real world robotics data to make these robots work. So even if Meta did develop that intelligence in house, it's still gonna have to sort of source a lot of these components from somewhere, and that's where the supply chain becomes really important and the FCC rules could kind of restrict their ability to do that quickly. So China does seem to have a significant advantage, but I could see Meta making acquisitions for the hardware side.