The Information's TITV
00:09:06 · Aaron Tilley, Akash Pasricha, Jyoti Mann
[00:09:06] S1: These sort of like tepid sort of like moves into the field of robotics, I don't think is a sign that they're going to be really at the forefront. I mean, as Apple... As always with Apple, they're always sort of like, we're not first, we're best. That's the attitude. So I think they're gonna be seeing... Watching what Meta and and and Tesla do in terms of robotics. And then if something really takes off, Apple will match it in a in a year or two. That's always been their strategy. I just don't know how successful that strategy is going to be given this is these are really soft. The software is so significant as part of the stack of these products and the AI, the AI systems. And Apple still really hasn't shown itself to be an AI company. Great. [00:09:54] S0: Well, Aaron, want to thank you for coming on. That is Aaron Tilley, our Apple reporter here at The Information. Meta is working on its own robot as well, and that too, a humanoid robot, according to exclusive reporting from The Information. The company is already working on its second prototype, and it is working with a China based robotics company on all of this. I want to bring on my colleague, Jyoti Mann, who reported that story. Jyoti, welcome back to the show. It's great to have you here. [00:10:21] S2: Thank you for having me. [00:10:22] S0: Okay, so tell me about this robot that Meta has built.
00:10:22 · Akash Pasricha, Jyoti Mann
[00:10:22] S0: Okay, so tell me about this robot that Meta has built. [00:10:26] S2: That's right. So Meta has built a robot with the Fourier Chinese robotics company named Fourier. Its name is Max and it weighs about 106 pounds, it's five feet tall and it's currently powered by Nvidia's Jetson Thor chip and a separate software platform. It's also got like two speakers built into its chest and eyes and mouth on its face, which can sort of mimic human expression. [00:10:52] S0: That was the most descriptive description of a robot. I love it. I feel like Max is here with us in the room. What does Max do? Tell me. [00:11:03] S2: So currently, it can walk, it can talk, can move its arms around and sort of observe its surroundings. [00:11:10] S0: It's like you're... It's like... I feel like this is like a... One of those auctions, you know? You're ready to auction it off. I'll be walking through a little bit of the history here. Meta, have we known that it's been interested in robotics for quite some time? How long has this been going on for?
00:11:10 · Akash Pasricha, Jyoti Mann
[00:11:10] S0: It's like you're... It's like... I feel like this is like a... One of those auctions, you know? You're ready to auction it off. I'll be walking through a little bit of the history here. Meta, have we known that it's been interested in robotics for quite some time? How long has this been going on for? [00:11:28] S2: Yeah, that's right. So last year, early last year, they sort of kickstarted this whole push with hiring the former CEO of Cruise and starting to build up this team of Meta robotics studio, sits within their hardware and AI devices lab, Reality Labs. So they have been working on this pretty quietly over the last year or so and they really sort of see this as a way to get something that's in people's homes that can help them with their chores And it's something that CTO Andrew Bosworth has spoken about internally, is it being a sort of physical embodiment of their AI agent news. So it can be an assistant as well as help people with chores and things like that. [00:12:13] S0: Tell me, the China based company that they're working on with this, what is that company? What do we know about them? [00:12:20] S2: So Fourier is a Shanghai based robotics company, and they've been building robots for years, specifically for the care industry, so to help with things like physical rehabilitation. So it's something that they've learned to do and they have all the hardware engineering experience and the ability to build and iterate very quickly, hence why they were able to build this prototype with Meta in just three months.
00:12:20 · Jyoti Mann, Akash Pasricha
[00:12:20] S2: So Fourier is a Shanghai based robotics company, and they've been building robots for years, specifically for the care industry, so to help with things like physical rehabilitation. So it's something that they've learned to do and they have all the hardware engineering experience and the ability to build and iterate very quickly, hence why they were able to build this prototype with Meta in just three months. [00:12:44] S0: And are The US and China governments okay that the companies are collaborating like this? [00:12:50] S2: Well, that's where this gets really interesting. Neither government is necessarily thrilled about the broader implications of such a cooperation, but Meta's currently just saying this is an internal research and experimentation project. It doesn't have any plans to sell these particular robots. But Washington has become a lot more concerned about Chinese robotics technology entering the American market. So back in the summer we saw the FCC already kind of restrict imports of new foreign made humanoid robots and China was the primary target of those restrictions. And Beijing meanwhile sort of sees robotics as a strategic industry, something that they have been vocal about for years in terms of wanting to dominate globally. So you've got American companies wanting this Chinese manufacturing expertise, but American policymakers are increasingly trying to limit that dependence on China.
00:12:50 · Jyoti Mann, Akash Pasricha
[00:12:50] S2: Well, that's where this gets really interesting. Neither government is necessarily thrilled about the broader implications of such a cooperation, but Meta's currently just saying this is an internal research and experimentation project. It doesn't have any plans to sell these particular robots. But Washington has become a lot more concerned about Chinese robotics technology entering the American market. So back in the summer we saw the FCC already kind of restrict imports of new foreign made humanoid robots and China was the primary target of those restrictions. And Beijing meanwhile sort of sees robotics as a strategic industry, something that they have been vocal about for years in terms of wanting to dominate globally. So you've got American companies wanting this Chinese manufacturing expertise, but American policymakers are increasingly trying to limit that dependence on China. [00:13:44] S0: Right. China's robotics sector obviously has been a big story that we've reported on extensively as well. Tell me, do we have a second prototype, I guess, that Meta is working on? What do we know about this second prototype? Is there at all? A timeline here on when this could at all be released, even though you just mentioned that right now it's solely just for R and D purposes?
00:13:44 · Akash Pasricha, Jyoti Mann
[00:13:44] S0: Right. China's robotics sector obviously has been a big story that we've reported on extensively as well. Tell me, do we have a second prototype, I guess, that Meta is working on? What do we know about this second prototype? Is there at all? A timeline here on when this could at all be released, even though you just mentioned that right now it's solely just for R and D purposes? [00:14:09] S2: That's right. So they haven't yet set a kind of target deadline for when they hope to eventually release it. They're still very much in the experimentation phase and building these prototypes and trying to improve its capabilities so that when they actually have something ready to launch in market, it will be very helpful to general consumers. But they started working on what is called Max two in September, so it's gonna have a totally redesigned torso and hands which can have better manipulation skills and I'm told a projector which could potentially display visual content and also have sensors which will help the robot to navigate going up and down stairs. And I believe it will take them around three months for this prototype as well, so by December time I think we might have an idea of how that is going.