The Information's TITV
00:12:50 · Jyoti Mann, Akash Pasricha
[00:12:50] S2: Well, that's where this gets really interesting. Neither government is necessarily thrilled about the broader implications of such a cooperation, but Meta's currently just saying this is an internal research and experimentation project. It doesn't have any plans to sell these particular robots. But Washington has become a lot more concerned about Chinese robotics technology entering the American market. So back in the summer we saw the FCC already kind of restrict imports of new foreign made humanoid robots and China was the primary target of those restrictions. And Beijing meanwhile sort of sees robotics as a strategic industry, something that they have been vocal about for years in terms of wanting to dominate globally. So you've got American companies wanting this Chinese manufacturing expertise, but American policymakers are increasingly trying to limit that dependence on China. [00:13:44] S0: Right. China's robotics sector obviously has been a big story that we've reported on extensively as well. Tell me, do we have a second prototype, I guess, that Meta is working on? What do we know about this second prototype? Is there at all? A timeline here on when this could at all be released, even though you just mentioned that right now it's solely just for R and D purposes?
00:13:44 · Akash Pasricha, Jyoti Mann
[00:13:44] S0: Right. China's robotics sector obviously has been a big story that we've reported on extensively as well. Tell me, do we have a second prototype, I guess, that Meta is working on? What do we know about this second prototype? Is there at all? A timeline here on when this could at all be released, even though you just mentioned that right now it's solely just for R and D purposes? [00:14:09] S2: That's right. So they haven't yet set a kind of target deadline for when they hope to eventually release it. They're still very much in the experimentation phase and building these prototypes and trying to improve its capabilities so that when they actually have something ready to launch in market, it will be very helpful to general consumers. But they started working on what is called Max two in September, so it's gonna have a totally redesigned torso and hands which can have better manipulation skills and I'm told a projector which could potentially display visual content and also have sensors which will help the robot to navigate going up and down stairs. And I believe it will take them around three months for this prototype as well, so by December time I think we might have an idea of how that is going.
00:14:09 · Jyoti Mann, Akash Pasricha
[00:14:09] S2: That's right. So they haven't yet set a kind of target deadline for when they hope to eventually release it. They're still very much in the experimentation phase and building these prototypes and trying to improve its capabilities so that when they actually have something ready to launch in market, it will be very helpful to general consumers. But they started working on what is called Max two in September, so it's gonna have a totally redesigned torso and hands which can have better manipulation skills and I'm told a projector which could potentially display visual content and also have sensors which will help the robot to navigate going up and down stairs. And I believe it will take them around three months for this prototype as well, so by December time I think we might have an idea of how that is going. [00:15:01] S0: And I'm thinking about the competition here. Optimus, obviously, from Tesla is sort of the loudest humanoid player in all this. We were just talking to Aaron Tilley about Apple's robotics ambitions. How far do you think Meta wants to go with this? Could we see an acquisition coming down the line here to really ramp up their efforts to move into this space? Is this still something that is very R and D focused, something that's happening in the background? What's the level of priority here, you think?
00:15:01 · Akash Pasricha, Jyoti Mann
[00:15:01] S0: And I'm thinking about the competition here. Optimus, obviously, from Tesla is sort of the loudest humanoid player in all this. We were just talking to Aaron Tilley about Apple's robotics ambitions. How far do you think Meta wants to go with this? Could we see an acquisition coming down the line here to really ramp up their efforts to move into this space? Is this still something that is very R and D focused, something that's happening in the background? What's the level of priority here, you think? [00:15:35] S2: Yeah, I mean, wouldn't rule out an acquisition, but I think with Meta Strategy it's more than just simply buying a robotics company. I mean, they already acquired Assured Robotics Intelligence earlier this year which builds models to train robots. So it's possible that they are just wanting to build the operating system and sell that and then potentially partner with another company in The US to build the hardware. But you have to remember that Meta has enormous resources. Not only do they have the AI talent, they've got experience building consumer platforms, so really they just need the hardware expertise and the real world robotics data to make these robots work. So even if Meta did develop that intelligence in house, it's still gonna have to sort of source a lot of these components from somewhere, and that's where the supply chain becomes really important and the FCC rules could kind of restrict their ability to do that quickly. So China does seem to have a significant advantage, but I could see Meta making acquisitions for the hardware side.
00:15:35 · Jyoti Mann, Akash Pasricha, Stephanie Palazzolo
[00:15:35] S2: Yeah, I mean, wouldn't rule out an acquisition, but I think with Meta Strategy it's more than just simply buying a robotics company. I mean, they already acquired Assured Robotics Intelligence earlier this year which builds models to train robots. So it's possible that they are just wanting to build the operating system and sell that and then potentially partner with another company in The US to build the hardware. But you have to remember that Meta has enormous resources. Not only do they have the AI talent, they've got experience building consumer platforms, so really they just need the hardware expertise and the real world robotics data to make these robots work. So even if Meta did develop that intelligence in house, it's still gonna have to sort of source a lot of these components from somewhere, and that's where the supply chain becomes really important and the FCC rules could kind of restrict their ability to do that quickly. So China does seem to have a significant advantage, but I could see Meta making acquisitions for the hardware side. [00:16:37] S0: Great. Okay. Well, Jyoti, want to thank you for coming on. That is Jyoti Mann, our Meta reporter, here at The Information. As AI Labs look to convince their customers to renew contracts and even upsell them, my colleague Stephanie Palazzolo has reporting that Anthropic and OpenAI have seen some resistance from businesses. I want to bring her on to share more about what she is hearing. Stephanie, welcome back to the show. It's great to have you here. [00:17:04] S3: Thanks. Great to be back.
00:17:04 · Stephanie Palazzolo, Akash Pasricha
[00:17:04] S3: Thanks. Great to be back. [00:17:05] S0: Okay. So tell me, Steph, why are customers hesitant to renew their OpenAI and Anthropic contracts?