00:28:56 · Molly O'Shea, Dylan Field
[00:28:56] S0: What is the biggest question right now that people should be asking? [00:29:00] S1: Actually, I think that, you know or Corey, this on a Tuesday. Maybe I I haven't looked at the news this morning. Maybe it's already a different question. But as of right now, we've got live situation with US government in Thropic where they're discussing a jailbreak. I'm not even sure if jailbreak's the right word, but the use case they're concerned about seems important. But I would say that jailbreaking is something that is understudied, and I actually think that there needs to be a kind of different posture towards trying to get people to break jailbreak models in order to battle test them the same way that we do with like HackerOne. There are programs that are being run by the labs, of course, but I think that there needs to be way more incentive out there to do that. And we need to define what it means. Like, jailbreaks are very wide in terms of the spectrum of what they do, you know? And I I don't think we can have a conversation like this without even, like, defining what a jailbreak is. So that's one question I would say is what's a jailbreak? [00:30:13] S0: You seem to be doing some jailbreaking yourself. So what are what the process I don't know.
00:30:13 · Molly O'Shea, Dylan Field
[00:30:13] S0: You seem to be doing some jailbreaking yourself. So what are what the process I don't know. [00:30:20] S1: Is a jailbreak? So no. I mean, I think that there's a period of time where I enjoyed just, like, trying to figure out how models worked, reasoned from the outside end. I'm more enjoying now just, like, with open weight models looking at, you know, interpretability research and whatnot when you can actually get access to compute [00:30:42] S0: Mhmm. [00:30:43] S1: For that. It's pretty fun. But, overall, I think, you know, it's mean, just just talking with models long enough leads to states that you could call a jailbreak for basic ID model. Yeah. But, again, what is a jailbreak? It's not like you have to do some fancy JSON thing. Like, that's what people like to popularize it online with. But, I mean, you can just talk to them and ask them questions. [00:31:13] S0: Are you token maxing? [00:31:14] S1: I think that yes and no. Like, I try to have for stuff that I'm working on. Oftentimes I'm trying to get the agent running longer as long as it's got a defined goal. But yeah, mean, I could be running like an agent swarm or something and I'm not doing that. We have plenty of people at Figma that are and are getting great results though. And it's amazing how much we can do there when you have folks that really understand the infrastructure that they're trying to build and they go and, you know, they're already 10x and they can 10x themselves again by having the agents really break up tasks properly.
00:31:14 · Dylan Field, Molly O'Shea
[00:31:14] S1: I think that yes and no. Like, I try to have for stuff that I'm working on. Oftentimes I'm trying to get the agent running longer as long as it's got a defined goal. But yeah, mean, I could be running like an agent swarm or something and I'm not doing that. We have plenty of people at Figma that are and are getting great results though. And it's amazing how much we can do there when you have folks that really understand the infrastructure that they're trying to build and they go and, you know, they're already 10x and they can 10x themselves again by having the agents really break up tasks properly. [00:31:59] S0: So one thing that was really interesting, I had an interview with Danielle Strachman from from Thiel Fellowship, like maybe a year ago now. And the one thing [00:32:11] S1: wonderful, by the way. [00:32:12] S0: So cool. That was a really fun interview. The one thing that she brought up, and she named you, I think, a couple of times in the interview, but you were an early Thiel Fellow. She said that you were hyperfluent. I mean, even you talking about LLMs right now and, like, AI, like, you're definitely more in the weeds than, I think, common folk. So, like, why why do you think it's important to have that trait of, like, deep curiosity and hyperfluency? And how did that develop?
00:32:12 · Molly O'Shea, Dylan Field
[00:32:12] S0: So cool. That was a really fun interview. The one thing that she brought up, and she named you, I think, a couple of times in the interview, but you were an early Thiel Fellow. She said that you were hyperfluent. I mean, even you talking about LLMs right now and, like, AI, like, you're definitely more in the weeds than, I think, common folk. So, like, why why do you think it's important to have that trait of, like, deep curiosity and hyperfluency? And how did that develop? [00:32:39] S1: I just think the world's, like, amazing. And, yeah, I I don't know. I I kinda just look at anything, and I'm pretty much interested in it. So I don't have a great answer, but definitely, if you're not always learning or finding a way to learn from any conversation, anything that you can encounter, it's like, well, why not? You know? There's just so much interesting stuff out there in the world. And so, yeah, I feel like we get such limited time on Earth. Like, let's make the most of it and and try to learn and connect the dots and figure out how to create some frameworks around what's happening and then break them. It's just a great mystery that we're alive and what's out there.
00:33:26 · S2, Molly O'Shea
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00:34:25 · S2, Molly O'Shea, Dylan Field
[00:34:25] S2: one place. They'll even give you an 1% match when you transfer your investments over from another platform. If you want to build a portfolio that actually reflects your thesis, visit public.com/sorcery, paid for by Public Investing. Full disclosure is in the description. Founders scale faster on Deal. Set up payroll for any country in minutes, hire anyone anywhere, get visas handled fast, and get back to building. Visit deal.com/sorcery. That's deel.com/sorcery. [00:34:55] S0: What did you learn the most while you were a Teal Fellow? What was that like? [00:35:00] S1: It was a really special experience overall. I was the second year of the Teal Fellowship, so 2012. Or sorry, rather I started, yeah, started in 2012 and it's a two year fellowship. So the class I was with, I got to know well and they're doing amazing stuff. And still some of them are really dear friends. And there's also folks from the first class too who have stayed in my life as close friends and people who have been mentors and people I've looked to for advice on all sorts of things, you know, the amount of learning from that group off the charts. But also, think it's just so lonely to start a company when you're younger. Like I was doing an internship at Flipboard before the Thiel Fellowship. And at Flipboard, it was awesome. My coworkers were great. I hung out with them, but they're like in their 30s and I was 20. [00:36:03] S0: Yeah.