00:26:41 · Dylan Field
[00:26:41] S1: I think that there's a bunch of ways this could play out and so we'll have to see. But overall, first, I think it's not even clear how do you define the unit of an agent? Yeah. So that's kind of a difficult one. But yeah, in general it should be the case that there's great services that you offer if folks are trying to do inference and use AI with your software and your platform that should result in like value to the customer and it should be the case that that's driven I think by humans. Overall, I think that humans being the loop will be the way that you steer towards the best outcomes. And I think that all my experience with AI so far have shown that on formal domains, things that are verifiable, you can get to amazing outcomes with enough IQ points. And yet judgment is somehow not purely correlated with just adding IQ points to the model. Design certainly does not seem to be correlated with adding IQ points to the model. These seem to be other capabilities that you have to figure out how to train and judgment I'm really curious about in particular because yeah just intuitively you know the folks that are really good at strategy like I have not even found with humans the common characteristic of how to find them. In design, think, you know, how do you teach a model true empathy for a user? How do you make it so that they can not just, you know, read a transcript of a user interview, but understand the relationships that user has, the inflections in their voice when they're talking about the problems they have and how it matters, and connect that with, like, their world and actually have that empathy for their worldview and where they're coming from to build for them, I I think it's really hard.
00:28:56 · Molly O'Shea, Dylan Field
[00:28:56] S0: What is the biggest question right now that people should be asking? [00:29:00] S1: Actually, I think that, you know or Corey, this on a Tuesday. Maybe I I haven't looked at the news this morning. Maybe it's already a different question. But as of right now, we've got live situation with US government in Thropic where they're discussing a jailbreak. I'm not even sure if jailbreak's the right word, but the use case they're concerned about seems important. But I would say that jailbreaking is something that is understudied, and I actually think that there needs to be a kind of different posture towards trying to get people to break jailbreak models in order to battle test them the same way that we do with like HackerOne. There are programs that are being run by the labs, of course, but I think that there needs to be way more incentive out there to do that. And we need to define what it means. Like, jailbreaks are very wide in terms of the spectrum of what they do, you know? And I I don't think we can have a conversation like this without even, like, defining what a jailbreak is. So that's one question I would say is what's a jailbreak? [00:30:13] S0: You seem to be doing some jailbreaking yourself. So what are what the process I don't know.
00:30:13 · Molly O'Shea, Dylan Field
[00:30:13] S0: You seem to be doing some jailbreaking yourself. So what are what the process I don't know. [00:30:20] S1: Is a jailbreak? So no. I mean, I think that there's a period of time where I enjoyed just, like, trying to figure out how models worked, reasoned from the outside end. I'm more enjoying now just, like, with open weight models looking at, you know, interpretability research and whatnot when you can actually get access to compute [00:30:42] S0: Mhmm. [00:30:43] S1: For that. It's pretty fun. But, overall, I think, you know, it's mean, just just talking with models long enough leads to states that you could call a jailbreak for basic ID model. Yeah. But, again, what is a jailbreak? It's not like you have to do some fancy JSON thing. Like, that's what people like to popularize it online with. But, I mean, you can just talk to them and ask them questions. [00:31:13] S0: Are you token maxing? [00:31:14] S1: I think that yes and no. Like, I try to have for stuff that I'm working on. Oftentimes I'm trying to get the agent running longer as long as it's got a defined goal. But yeah, mean, I could be running like an agent swarm or something and I'm not doing that. We have plenty of people at Figma that are and are getting great results though. And it's amazing how much we can do there when you have folks that really understand the infrastructure that they're trying to build and they go and, you know, they're already 10x and they can 10x themselves again by having the agents really break up tasks properly.
00:31:14 · Dylan Field, Molly O'Shea
[00:31:14] S1: I think that yes and no. Like, I try to have for stuff that I'm working on. Oftentimes I'm trying to get the agent running longer as long as it's got a defined goal. But yeah, mean, I could be running like an agent swarm or something and I'm not doing that. We have plenty of people at Figma that are and are getting great results though. And it's amazing how much we can do there when you have folks that really understand the infrastructure that they're trying to build and they go and, you know, they're already 10x and they can 10x themselves again by having the agents really break up tasks properly. [00:31:59] S0: So one thing that was really interesting, I had an interview with Danielle Strachman from from Thiel Fellowship, like maybe a year ago now. And the one thing [00:32:11] S1: wonderful, by the way. [00:32:12] S0: So cool. That was a really fun interview. The one thing that she brought up, and she named you, I think, a couple of times in the interview, but you were an early Thiel Fellow. She said that you were hyperfluent. I mean, even you talking about LLMs right now and, like, AI, like, you're definitely more in the weeds than, I think, common folk. So, like, why why do you think it's important to have that trait of, like, deep curiosity and hyperfluency? And how did that develop?
00:32:12 · Molly O'Shea, Dylan Field
[00:32:12] S0: So cool. That was a really fun interview. The one thing that she brought up, and she named you, I think, a couple of times in the interview, but you were an early Thiel Fellow. She said that you were hyperfluent. I mean, even you talking about LLMs right now and, like, AI, like, you're definitely more in the weeds than, I think, common folk. So, like, why why do you think it's important to have that trait of, like, deep curiosity and hyperfluency? And how did that develop? [00:32:39] S1: I just think the world's, like, amazing. And, yeah, I I don't know. I I kinda just look at anything, and I'm pretty much interested in it. So I don't have a great answer, but definitely, if you're not always learning or finding a way to learn from any conversation, anything that you can encounter, it's like, well, why not? You know? There's just so much interesting stuff out there in the world. And so, yeah, I feel like we get such limited time on Earth. Like, let's make the most of it and and try to learn and connect the dots and figure out how to create some frameworks around what's happening and then break them. It's just a great mystery that we're alive and what's out there.
00:33:26 · S2, Molly O'Shea
[00:33:26] S2: Today's episode is sponsored by VCX by Fundrise, the public ticker for private tech, allowing investors of all sizes to invest in venture capital. Learn more at getvcx.com. Some of you may not have heard this yet, but our sponsor Public just launched something called Generated Assets, and it brings AI into investing in a way I've honestly never seen before. Here's how it works: You type in an idea like AI powered supply chain companies with positive free cash flow or defense tech companies growing revenue over twenty five year over year. Publix AI then dispatches a swarm of agents that scan every single US stock, evaluates them, and instantly builds a custom index around your thesis. What really stands out is how clearly it explains why each stock is included. And before you invest, you can even backtest your idea against the S and P 500. So you're making decisions with real context, not just guessing. And beyond generated assets, public lets you invest in stocks, bonds, options, crypto, [00:34:24] S0: all in [00:34:25] S2: one place. They'll even give you an 1% match when you transfer your investments over from another platform. If you want to build a portfolio that actually reflects your thesis, visit public.com/sorcery, paid for by Public Investing. Full disclosure is in the description. Founders scale faster on Deal. Set up payroll for any country in minutes, hire anyone anywhere, get visas handled fast, and get back to building. Visit deal.com/sorcery. That's deel.com/sorcery.