00:14:22 · Molly O'Shea, Dylan Field
[00:14:22] S0: What have you learned about human psychology from that? [00:14:28] S1: From Mafia? I I I think there's not much to learn about human psychology from Mafia. I played a decent amount of Mafia or Werewolf, you know, same game People have religious wars around what to call it. But, yeah, I think that, you know, probably that people's attention spans are short, that you can diverge and kinda divert conversation. At some point, I stopped playing the game actually Mhmm. Because I figured out that it was a lose lose. Either you actually do well and you've, like, lost because people afterwards oftentimes are like, how could you? I trusted you. Just like, feel terrible. Or you've, like, literally lost like I did at those games. And so I I prefer to moderate and definitely out of practice, but it's a fun one. [00:15:20] S0: It's super fun. [00:15:21] S1: And it was really cool that Solana did that. I think he's had that vision for a long time, and I just give him all the credit for, like, making it happen that way. Totally. I think more people gotta do that. They just gotta take a big risk and a big swing and just go for it.
00:15:21 · Dylan Field, Molly O'Shea
[00:15:21] S1: And it was really cool that Solana did that. I think he's had that vision for a long time, and I just give him all the credit for, like, making it happen that way. Totally. I think more people gotta do that. They just gotta take a big risk and a big swing and just go for it. [00:15:34] S0: I mean, I think that that'll be kind of, like, a through line of most of our conversation because there's so many attempts right now of building a brand the abyss of templated AI literally everywhere. And so whether it's comms, marketing, media, brand, product, we're kind of stuck in this, like, bell curve in the middle. Yes. And so how should people, especially with Figma, like, escape what I kind of call, like, the permanent underclass of zero taste?
00:16:06 · Dylan Field
[00:16:06] S1: That's a perfect, like, meme fusion there. I'll have to steal it for our marketing. I think, basically, first of all, there's a taste and there's sort of the distribution common. They're very separate. I think that first it's important to acknowledge, like if you just use an LM for everything and have it literally tell you how it wants to go build a thing, how to go design a thing, you're gonna get something that it wants to give you. And it's kind of diverged that point from whatever's in your head to however it processed it. I do think through workflows, and we have like something called Figma Weave, for example, where you can take model outputs and you can pass them through a workflow and really steer it along the way. And that can get you closer to, I think, non deterministic generative workflows that get closer to intent and are systematic. But in general, yeah, people that are just like, yeah, design me the thing, you're gonna get the average and it's not going to stand out. And in a world where there's just more than average in terms of software and media and advertising and content. I mean, you know this better than anyone. The tension economy is real. Staying out is hard. And I think that it takes not only human steering and human intent, but also it takes a point of view. And I think that is something that people fall down on all the time because it's kind of scary to have a point of view. It's like a real point of view and to be bold and to take a risk. And so I'm hopeful, and actually I think there's good early signs of this everywhere right now, that folks are already internalizing this even if they can't speak about it in the same words yet. And they're already kind of from the market teaching them, realizing they have to go take these bolder bets, bigger swings. And as they do that, I think they're going to really unlock just this explosion of creativity. And we're gonna see, you know, so many things tried that haven't been tried before. And so that's something that like I cannot wait for.
00:18:26 · S2
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00:19:52 · Molly O'Shea
[00:19:52] S0: There was a tweet that you posted retweeting a graph of number of apps that are being released and then the actual usage of those apps. We actually just, I talked about that with Mark Pincus. He's super product guy. He he definitely pays attention to that. But in that point, you were saying execution is cheap, but design and creativity are actually very, very important and separates the wheat from the chaff. But in terms of that, like, what kind of risks should people be taking? Like, what do you see is kind of, like, overlooked right now?
00:20:27 · Dylan Field, Molly O'Shea
[00:20:27] S1: I think so much is overlooked. I mean, everything from, like, what problem are you even tackling to how do you brand, what positions do you take as a company, how do you connect with people, and what emotions are you trying to bring through your brand and marketing, but also through the application software. And then for the software side, I think, I'm just eager to see not only more interaction patterns tried, but really folks understanding what is the core thing that people need and pushing all the way to get there. It's so much easier to apply patterns that you've already seen. But I think that there's just like this huge unexplored space out there of stuff that, you know, it takes a long time to get right. And that is a risk because you might not actually hit. But if you can actually go all the way and think through the system really well and hold it in your head and hold it in your team's head, which is even harder to communicate it. Like you kind of have to memify it inside your company sometimes, but if you can do that and you can come up with like more novel ways for people to interact with systems, that's where I think, you know, it'll really be amazing. And the example is I'm still shocked that we're in a prompting age. Like, it's been, what, five years since GPT-three now? I think it's 2021, June 2021 GPT-three. [00:22:04] S0: Really?