00:51:37 · Mati Staniszewski
[00:51:37] S0: I'm maximally bullish. There'll be a lot of breakthroughs, but I don't... Like, I'm I'm more on the long... Longer term spectrum. I don't think it will happen next two, three years. So, like, that's where I would, you know, disagree as I think about the the conversations with a lot of the the research folks, but they know more than I do. So... And so I should trust them. But I do think it's it's it's it's going to... Like, a lot of the innovations on the foundational stack will happen, and then bringing that to the real world will take a much, much longer time frame just like the the business process of bringing that into an organization, people adapting to how to work with this will just take such a long time. So, you know, it's it's it's it's, like, closer five to ten years in that dramatic shift. And then it's it's like, you know, where... What's the distribution of compensation then look like? It's an interesting one too. Like, is the knowledge work that's replaced, or is it the creative work that's adjusted, or is it something completely else? I'm curious, like, more in a category where I think you you you... There'll be that more of the middle to middle where the super smart people or super creative people will use those tools to their advantage. So so so that's kind of, like, gives you that superpower. So I think you still you still will be in that category, but you will want to... You will you will need to want to do that work too.
00:52:56 · Joubin Mirzadegan, Mati Staniszewski
[00:52:56] S1: Have you had any crazy, insane recruiting stories? Like, have you had to do things that you were like, I cannot believe I just had to do this to win to win or save this candidate? [00:53:08] S0: The... Many, but I don't know how... Which ones I can mention. No names. But the AGI piece of, like, you know, the world will change is... Yes. That that that has happened a number of times. So we're just... Which is... So so the the the the previous part was like we we had people. It's like, hey. How one one, we didn't hire, but it was, hey. I want to maximize what I can get in the next three years because I think in three years, the world will not look So it's [00:53:38] S1: a part of their negotiation strategy. [00:53:40] S0: It's like [00:53:40] S1: Because they also view their own work along with everybody else's as diminishing Exactly. That's you achieve some artificial general intelligence. Exactly. That's insane. [00:53:49] S0: That is... That was interesting. It's [00:53:52] S1: really dystopian. [00:53:53] S0: Dystopian and very... Like, so we didn't end up proceeding there, but it was impossible to convince the other person that it... You know, like, how it has impact for for everybody else in the company, how that kind of sets up a a bad precedent, etcetera. But but it it did... It was like, it's very hard to convince someone that HAI will not happen if they are spending, you know, most of their work and life in that space. But that's kind of the question that
00:53:53 · Mati Staniszewski, Joubin Mirzadegan
[00:53:53] S0: Dystopian and very... Like, so we didn't end up proceeding there, but it was impossible to convince the other person that it... You know, like, how it has impact for for everybody else in the company, how that kind of sets up a a bad precedent, etcetera. But but it it did... It was like, it's very hard to convince someone that HAI will not happen if they are spending, you know, most of their work and life in that space. But that's kind of the question that [00:54:20] S1: I have. Like, it is very hard to convince the smartest people who are the most entrenched in this technology that AGI will not happen in the next few years. Whatever AGI is, we can figure out that definition, but, like, something that does not exist today. But, like, I guess, like, why don't you or I believe them? That... Like, that's that's the question that I keep coming back to. [00:54:49] S0: No. I I probably... It's like there's some percentage that I do. It's it's, you know, it's it's a big question where I think there is probably much more knowledgeable people than I that can take it. But, no, I I think there's, like, a good degree of percentage percentage points that that this might happen, and they are fully right. It's insane. It's insane. What do you take? What's your take?
00:55:11 · Joubin Mirzadegan
[00:55:11] S1: I'm probably one of the least qualified people to talk about this relative to the folks that that you work with every day. But my point is, like, man, I'm still trying to get an LLM to not sound like an LLM. Like, I'm still in the world where I'm getting sent text that sounds shitty like an LLM, and everybody else is talking about this world where compensation won't matter in a couple of years. And I'm like, a lot will have to go right for us to get from this point to that point. You know? And so and so I'm like, alright. Like, there's a few things, at least in the enterprise, that have worked really well. Coding has worked really well. Support has worked really well. There's not that many things that have actually worked really well yet. And then on the consumer side, I've seen some behavior change, certainly my own, where I have a sounding board basically at all times. But I'm not... It has not... It's amazing. It is profound. It makes me more productive, but I don't feel... The way that I think about my compensation or the value of my real estate or, you know, like cancer getting solved. Those have not... I haven't changed my milestones in my head, and maybe I'm like some laggard. But, like, I live in Silicon Valley and, like, at KP. So if you asked a lot of other people that are not here, maybe they would reflect more of that sentiment of like, I don't know. You know? I don't know. That's my take.
00:56:52 · Mati Staniszewski, Joubin Mirzadegan
[00:56:52] S0: I I'm more in that longer time frame because I think it will take so long to adopt even if you have like a, you know, like a knowledge knowledge, like, the smartest human in your pocket available that you can you can speak with at any point and it... Or the kind of thousands of them, it's still, like, before you can realize all the outcomes for the world will take a longer period of time. [00:57:13] S1: Like, even in company building, everybody's probably telling you, like, oh, you can... You don't need 330 people. You can do this with a 100 people. And then what ends up happening, like, reality hits you across [00:57:26] S0: the opens... OpenAI's, like, hiring diagram. [00:57:30] S1: What what is [00:57:30] S0: it? It's it's, like, scaling as quickly as it ever ever did. [00:57:34] S1: Ever did. Right? Yeah. And by the way, even in that case, they're, like... You know, 50% or more of all of software is probably being written by AI within that company, and they're hiring a ton of engineers. [00:57:46] S0: No. 100%. I... So so that's... Yeah. Case in point. These are, things [00:57:50] S1: that I just... I don't... Like, if everybody that's smarter than me is telling me this is definitely inevitability, then why isn't the behavior of the places... Like, why is No. No. That's... I think
00:57:50 · Joubin Mirzadegan, Mati Staniszewski
[00:57:50] S1: that I just... I don't... Like, if everybody that's smarter than me is telling me this is definitely inevitability, then why isn't the behavior of the places... Like, why is No. No. That's... I think [00:57:59] S0: we agree there. I think it's going to take much, much longer time before it's adopted and across all products, across all dimensions. And in your three hundredthirty, which is crazy to think to me as well, we we were just a year ago, were less than a 100, so it's like a lot of people joined in the last twelve months. But, you you know, the the the deployment of the techno... Like, what is go to market, what is engineering. So on the go to market side, working internationally across all the companies and being able to kind of speak through the process, be a partner into how to use that technology, it's a lengthy and and time consuming process. You really need people there. And on the product side too, like, to be... But it goes back to that point of, like, you can you you can have the best foundational model, but to derive value from any of those models, you need a pretty solid product layer on top. So I'm with you on the longer time frame. [00:58:49] S1: Mhmm. Fascinating. Like, in your neck of the woods, where [00:58:52] S0: do you live? I... So I'm between... I'm leaving between London and New York at the moment. [00:58:56] S1: Okay. London and New York. Like, do these conversations even exist? Like