00:09:37 · John Collison, Toto Wolff
[00:09:37] S1: So for all f one teams, one thing is the cost cap changed is speculative r and d just had to go because, ultimately, you have fixed dollars, and you have to put absolutely everything you can towards this season and next season. [00:09:48] S0: I wouldn't say all of it had to go. Yeah. You still need to make the... You know, find the right balance between what you think future cars Mhmm. Are are going to benefit from Yes. Value the lap time effect it can have versus the current cars. And and, unfortunately, that percentage of r and d development of science and lab work, which I love, has a more limited Yes. [00:10:16] S1: Scope. You have not only the overall cost cap, but you have things like limits on the number of wind tunnel runs and CFD simulations. Isn't that a bit weird? Thus, you can spend your r and d budgets exactly as you want to? [00:10:30] S0: So there's two sides of that coin. The first one is to say Formula One was all... Always unlimited budget and therefore ultra sophisticated machinery Mhmm. Which led to a situation that the big teams, Mercedes, Ferrari, Red Bull, were leapfrogging all of the other teams. Because for us, we had those big mother ships Mhmm. Behind us that benefited from either shareholder that was extremely keen like Red Bull or Mercedes that said this is a huge branding exercise for us, and the spending is relatively low in comparison to all of our marketing. So what happened is only these three teams actually won races. [00:11:15] S1: So
00:11:15 · John Collison, Toto Wolff
[00:11:15] S1: So [00:11:15] S0: Formula One said we want everybody to compete on the same budgets. Mhmm. And that was the reason why it was introduced. Now you can see that limited very much, you know, the kind of science aspect of Formula One, but it brought also more competition. And that's one of the positive effects. The other one is that Formula one back in the day, Chase Carrick, who was the CEO, said, we need to protect you from yourselves. Because obviously, I was against the cost cap. Because I knew that Mercedes, we had might. And that probably the worst case scenario was to lose against the Ferrari or against the Red Bull, but not against the McLaren or Williams or anybody else. So he said that to me. Eventually, it was a take it or leave it. [00:11:58] S1: Mhmm. You're investing, trying to eke out tiny advantages in the car. And one of the things that's interesting is this, there are the rules. There are things that are clearly against the rules. There are things that are permitted. And then there's a spectrum between those of the gray areas. And when the challenge is is, like, you defend something that you think is great and clearly allowed, but then it's banned midseason or it's, you know, banned in the next season. And so was it really worth all that effort, you know, to get, like, a, you know, trivial advantage? Maybe, maybe not. [00:12:29] S0: And I think the lesson we've learned is that it needs the dialogue with the governing body. If you feel you have an innovation that passed the first red face test within the organization [00:12:42] S1: Yes.
00:12:42 · John Collison, Toto Wolff
[00:12:42] S1: Yes. [00:12:43] S0: That means the leading engineers, sometimes myself on the table, we are carrying a mock a mock trial. And the people that have invented Yeah. The loophole or the opportunity, play the prosecutor. And so they need to fight their own argument. And then on the other side, there is the ones engineers that defend the innovation. And then is our general counsel, Carrie, and myself were the judges. And you try to see how how convincing the defense is? Yeah. Exactly. How convincing is the defense and how can you destroy the argument that is actually legal? Yes. So that would be an extreme case where there is something that we we we struggle within the engineering community to define. But, obviously, the dialogue with the FAA is important and bring them on very early. [00:13:30] S1: But so will you... If you have a very secret proprietary improvement that you don't want to unveil, it will be totally top secret within Mercedes, but you will also bring the FIA into it? [00:13:40] S0: If we think it's 100% defendable Okay. While crystal clear defendable Yes. Then we will deploy it on the car, and then we will make the argument why it's right. And normally, the FIA will say, we don't like [00:13:51] S1: it. Yes. [00:13:52] S0: They could say we like it, but it circumvents the principle of the regulation, so we're gonna ban it. Mhmm. Because the principle of regulation is most equal competition. Yes. So if they're fair, they're gonna say ban it next year. Mhmm. If they believe it's really very powerful and it's not what they wanted to see or intended
00:13:52 · Toto Wolff, John Collison
[00:13:52] S0: They could say we like it, but it circumvents the principle of the regulation, so we're gonna ban it. Mhmm. Because the principle of regulation is most equal competition. Yes. So if they're fair, they're gonna say ban it next year. Mhmm. If they believe it's really very powerful and it's not what they wanted to see or intended [00:14:10] S1: Yes. [00:14:10] S0: To define, then it could be banned much earlier. This is where the politics come into play. Yeah. So, basically, if they think it's a fair [00:14:17] S1: loophole, they'll give you one season of advantage. [00:14:20] S0: I would say this is... Call it the kind of experience that we have. Yes. Because they are, you know, innovators and engineers too, and they will respect Yes. If something comes up like this. You know, one example was was the system that we called DAS, which was, you know, you have the various dimension how you... Of the steering wheel, what you do. I don't know if you heard about it. You can steer to the left, and you can steer to the right. [00:14:43] S1: That parlay now. I'm with you so far. [00:14:44] S0: Yeah. So far. Yeah. That's like in an airplane. No. In an airplane, you can also [00:14:47] S1: go forward and back. Exactly. There's actually nothing like that. [00:14:49] S0: And here, it becomes interesting. So what we did, we created another dimension with the steering wheel, actually, to push and to pull the steering wheel in a Formula one car. And what it did, it [00:15:01] S1: changed Yes. I do remember this.
00:15:01 · John Collison, Toto Wolff
[00:15:01] S1: changed Yes. I do remember this. [00:15:02] S0: Yeah. Yeah. It changed the way the front wheels were operating in terms of its tow effect. Mhmm. What it did is we were able to turn the the wheel. We created a tow effect, which helped us to heat up the surfaces of the tyres by basically dragging them up. [00:15:19] S1: You were running them inefficiently. Yeah. [00:15:21] S0: Yeah. And they respected innovation. I remember the first test, Sky had it on board and said, what's happening here? They're pushing and pulling the steering wheel. And when... It was shown to me four or five months before we actually produced it. They called me to a rig in in test and development. Yes. And there was the steering wheel. And they said, now turn to the left and turn to the right. You know, I was a driver. So... And then I said, now push it and pull it. And I said, well, that doesn't go. It's like, you know, I'm used to it in order to fix the steering wheel to this, you know, where I wanted to have it. But it feels deeply uncomfortable actually to have this additional motion in the steering wheel. And then the front lawn drivers called in and said, no. We'd like to try it. And and it really worked. So come back. I think if you wanna be... You you want to have the the the exchange with the FAA to make sure that you're not on the wrong side of the argument. [00:16:13] S1: But so with that, did they end up banning it, or they ended up permitting it [00:16:15] S0: in the region? Banned it after a year.
00:16:15 · Toto Wolff, John Collison
[00:16:15] S0: in the region? Banned it after a year. [00:16:17] S1: So why did they ban it after a year? Why didn't they say, okay. This is one of the things that F1 cards can [00:16:21] S0: do now? I don't know. Maybe we lost the political argument that it was good. Other teams said it would cost so much to replicate it, and they could. But is that really the intention of the of the regulations? [00:16:34] S1: Why did you do it as a push pull rather than a button on the steering wheel? Or, you know, why was the push pull the control mechanism? [00:16:39] S0: I think there was a regulations that allowed to have it, like, a mechanical system that was... You know, the the the rule is the driver must drive the car. Yes. So it needed to be deployed for the driver through a mechanical system. It's... I believe that was the reason. [00:16:53] S1: I see. So that was the best way to have it defensible. Yeah. That's so interesting. What about the... Where would you categorize the compression ratio kerfuffle, you know, ambient temperature versus, you know, measuring a temperature? Where where does that fit on this spectrum?