00:16:15 · Toto Wolff, John Collison
[00:16:15] S0: in the region? Banned it after a year. [00:16:17] S1: So why did they ban it after a year? Why didn't they say, okay. This is one of the things that F1 cards can [00:16:21] S0: do now? I don't know. Maybe we lost the political argument that it was good. Other teams said it would cost so much to replicate it, and they could. But is that really the intention of the of the regulations? [00:16:34] S1: Why did you do it as a push pull rather than a button on the steering wheel? Or, you know, why was the push pull the control mechanism? [00:16:39] S0: I think there was a regulations that allowed to have it, like, a mechanical system that was... You know, the the the rule is the driver must drive the car. Yes. So it needed to be deployed for the driver through a mechanical system. It's... I believe that was the reason. [00:16:53] S1: I see. So that was the best way to have it defensible. Yeah. That's so interesting. What about the... Where would you categorize the compression ratio kerfuffle, you know, ambient temperature versus, you know, measuring a temperature? Where where does that fit on this spectrum?
00:16:53 · John Collison, Toto Wolff
[00:16:53] S1: I see. So that was the best way to have it defensible. Yeah. That's so interesting. What about the... Where would you categorize the compression ratio kerfuffle, you know, ambient temperature versus, you know, measuring a temperature? Where where does that fit on this spectrum? [00:17:08] S0: This was just other teams feeling sore about not having read the regulations in the right way. You know, today, on any vehicle in the world with a combustion engine, you measure compression ratio in a cold state. Because how else would you measure it? What does hot state even mean at a certain temperature with other ambient factors that that that matter? And it's a... It could be a manipulative value that you have. So the other team said, quite unfair. You know, the rules say it needs to be measured in the cold environment Yes. Or cold engine. And what Mercedes has done is once it's running hot, it basically grew in size and therefore extracted more power. And we didn't confirm that. [00:17:56] S1: You had more thermal expansion than other engines did? Exactly. Because you engineered in Well, I can't really confirm that. Sorry. Okay. But that's what people say.
00:17:56 · John Collison, Toto Wolff
[00:17:56] S1: You had more thermal expansion than other engines did? Exactly. Because you engineered in Well, I can't really confirm that. Sorry. Okay. But that's what people say. [00:18:04] S0: That's what people say. Because the measurement was clearly identified to be in in the cold in the cold phase of the engine. Yes. And so was it a loophole? Was it a a shortfall of the other teams? I think it was a shortfall of the other teams. So it became quite a political argument, and then some compromise was found in how the measurement worked. And actually, you know, funny bit is it didn't make any difference for us. So it was a month long argument going back and forth, and we fought it for the sheer principle Yes. [00:18:33] S1: Yes. Innovation. Is it hard to keep these top secret improvements a secret? [00:18:38] S0: Yeah. It is because there is a natural fluctuations of personnel between the teams. [00:18:43] S1: Do you compartmentalize? It's like the Manhattan Project. You know, you need to Yeah. You know Firewall things. [00:18:49] S0: You... We firewall certain things, and we don't, you you know, I'm pretty... I'm maybe more on the extreme side within the organization. Not everyone needs to know everything. But eventually, you will always have a a group of, what I call it, 20, 25 people Who need to be in the now. Who need to be in in there, and and they may change team, and then that obviously leaks. [00:19:09] S1: Can you prevent people from changing team within a season?
00:19:09 · John Collison, Toto Wolff
[00:19:09] S1: Can you prevent people from changing team within a season? [00:19:12] S0: So there is the, you know, regulatory environment of every country. How long can you actually prohibit someone to work for [00:19:19] S1: Yeah. [00:19:19] S0: For another team? With our contract... Contractual frameworks. And in The UK, can do it up to twelve months. [00:19:25] S1: Okay. [00:19:25] S0: But there are countries like Switzerland, for example, where it's three months. Okay. So... [00:19:30] S1: So you gotta be careful who you hire in Switzerland. [00:19:32] S0: Yeah. We haven't got a Audi's in Switzerland, for example. You gotta be half... Careful who you hire hire elsewhere. Yes. But you always need to account for the fact that the people may change teams because of personal reasons. Absolutely, you know, fair arguments. Yes. And that's why how can you make sure that things are not leaking too easily, but they will eventually always come out. [00:19:51] S1: Yes. If you could write the rules, how would you change them?
00:19:51 · John Collison, Toto Wolff
[00:19:51] S1: Yes. If you could write the rules, how would you change them? [00:19:54] S0: Well, I'm in two minds. You know, the innovation part in me and listening to my engineers is free rein. Mhmm. We have a budget cap Yes. That is 200,000,000 and then make it as open as you want. Yes. Because that would be magnificent Yes. From a magnificent from a scientific standpoint, an engineering standpoint. But it would... What what would happen is the the best engineers in the... With the most, you know, capability also in terms of infrastructure will come out with a car that is much superior than some of the other teams. And it would create a a field where the leading car could be five seconds quicker than the next one. And that is not what Formula One wants. Mhmm. So it's becoming more and more restrictive. Yes. Is that good or bad? You know, I think it needs to be it needs to be sensible because this is still the fastest laboratory in the world. That is in our DNA. And I think it's, that is still happening. Yeah. Obviously, engineers will always say, well, it's not as much fun as it was in the in the past, but it's still a lot of fun.
00:20:56 · John Collison
[00:20:56] S1: Yeah. Yeah. You were describing one set of risks in developing new technical changes, which is the the regulatory risk. You know, the risk, will you be allowed to have us even for one season or or certainly multiple? But the other risks is just technical risks. You know? Will it work? And And I think in any r and d organization... You know, we have this at Stripe where we only have so much time. We only have so much money. We have only so much engineers, and we need to put them on the very... You know, towards the projects that are most likely to work. You And don't know upfront what's gonna work. And so part of the special sauce is that ability to predict this product direction is a good one versus this one is just... I mean, it's not awful. It's just not the not the best. And you're fundamentally playing this game of where you spread the poker chips. How do you manage technical risk? How do you think about allocating those very precious chips? And, again, they're even more precious now in the new cost capital.