00:16:00 · Mal McCallion
[00:16:00] S0: That's right. It's significant, isn't it? So and and I think you know, it is a welcome addition. It does keep pushing these things forward more and more different, um, and just like natural competition. The more the more that's in the mix, the harder everybody presses. I believe it's only a year ago. It's like two years ago. This year is absolutely flown. So but yes, that we've been waiting for this for ages. There were rumours in the summer that basically um four was not up to scratch, that it was, you know, there were massive problems with it. So now that it is here, as you say, you know, once it gets released, it's going to be great to kind of play around with it. Um I think you're also right, you know, never count Google out. You know, it's that that they are so huge. And one of the reasons, and let's talk about the kind of financials. Um, so upon announcement of all of this and and and the kind of big um investor calls that they did last week, they they managed to lose half a billion, so 500 million off their um their market cap, which is the second largest fall, I think, ever. Um, and I think NVIDIA only beat it once, and I think that was when um DeepSeek first kind of popped out. Um, so so yeah, it is a huge, huge, huge loss because basically analysts are looking at this, the numbers, and starting to sweat. And and I think that's a really, really interesting story because what they came what came out on the call, um, Sundar Pichai, um, the chief exec basically said, look, AI mode on your Google search results, just not getting the clicks anymore. You know, people aren't buying the blue, you know, the blue ads because nobody's looking at that. But we're answering the question up front, so therefore it's not going through. And it's it's it's this kind of like, you know, are we going to be cannibalized ourselves? Are we going to cannibalize ourselves, or are we going to be cannibalized by somebody else, you know, out there who's going to come along and eat our lunch? That's not mixing way too many disgusting metaphors. Anyway, so yeah, it's it's it is that the analyst now starting to to consider and potentially price in what happens if Google isn't able to do this.
00:17:45 · Mal McCallion
Actually, there is this massive kind of you know dip where actually it can't monetize the AI as fast as it is losing um money in the the ads, which has always been its cash machine, always been you know just a relentless um ATM um pushing out pushing out cash. So I think it is um I think it's it's it's a moment, you know. I think it is at where where people are starting to see this the AI is a different business model, and actually, kind of a lot of the old kind of things that people held hold to um over the last 25 years of the internet are starting to kind of creak a little bit. So, yeah, gonna be interesting to see that from the financial side, but then from the technical side and yeah, what can carbon bring us? At the very least, I think it's got to be on a par with the others. It's gonna start keep keep pushing through. You know, I'm sure 4.1 is not far away because whilst they are going through the regulatory stuff, they will be continuing to improve it and so on. But yeah, no, it's gonna be uh gonna be quite exciting to play around with that. And and Matt, they're also bringing out you know more kind of world models and things like that. I know you've been kind of reading up on that genie and the new genie AI model, Genie 4, which you know, again, just looks like an insane piece of kit. And and it might be in these these spheres that it just smashes the other competitors as well.
00:18:52 · Matt Goddard
[00:18:52] S1: Well, that's it. And with Genie, it's been a long time since I you know got into games as much as maybe my two brothers do, but uh genie's uh allowing people to create sort of in in a single prompt these incredible world models that, for example, I think everyone's waiting for the new version of Grand Theft Auto, and and you can do that within Genie and start moving yourself around it as if as if you'd been you just prompted it to life. And I think you said you've got um family who are quite young creating these games, aren't you?
00:19:19 · Mal McCallion
[00:19:19] S0: Yeah, and this this is fascinating because um so so I've I've got part of a big family, I've got six brothers and sisters, so I have like 15, 16 nieces and nephews, and the younger elements who are like five and eight. They've been basically going and building stuff. One of the ones Roblox, the youngest one, um, but it was he's a Coventry City fan of all things, and uh he's been building Estate from Coventry City Stadium, and it's just this Roblox game that he's just like built, and it's like it's it's so good, and it's like you know, it's five, whatever. And then his older brother um built this kind of like a shooter first, an overhead shooter that looks like it's something to do with uh some kind of um brand that he's really into. But again, you know, it's just these mash-ups of kind of ideas of like, you know, well, what could you know if if I was doing I don't know, space invaders, but instead of space invaders, it was I don't know, million cricketers, whatever. I mean, you know, that that that sort of stuff, you can just mash this thing, these things up now with these these world models and just just and and I think this is where a lot of people are worried about creativity. A lot of people worried about, you know, well, what's gonna happen when you know we us humans we're not gonna be able to you know build stuff anymore? It's almost completely the opposite in my view. It's like what happens when you can build anything. It's like it's that problem rather than the other problem, which is oh my god, we're gonna be just sitting here like serving the AI. I just think, you know, if if if we kind of look up a bit and go, right, what is the thing? And again, you know, you might start with your business and go, what's the thing that's the biggest problem for me right now today? What do I do every day that really I get so bored with and or my team is just relentlessly having to do instead of going out and talking to guys and building relationships, and just focus on that and get, I don't know, little carbon when it comes out, or get um ChatGPT Astra, or get Mythos from Anthropic on there from Claude, um, and just just ask it the question and see what happens. That to me is is the joy of this this this amazing period of of our time um because there's just so much to to to do. Yeah.
00:21:00 · Mal McCallion, Matt Goddard
No, there's there's all sorts of there's random, like you know, 80s spectrum games that I kind of think. I wonder what would happen if you kind of mashed up um Lords of Midnight with Call of Duty. And if anybody knows Lords of Midnight, they'll know how sad I am. But anyway. So, yes, amazing things happening. Um, and I think you know it's just going to continue to kind of grow um as we uh as we kind of go through. [00:21:19] S1: I think the example just on genie to come back to as well is uh maybe a few months ago we talked about one of the world models was um that you take Nighthawk and and suddenly put yourself in that. But it's like genie allows you to within within a single prompt. So think about what the the real world use cases were for that, right? It's like you know, what about Camberwell? Could I put myself in Camberwell? Are they like basically creating the metaverse, put yourself on on the very specific areas you want to look at, right?
00:21:44 · Mal McCallion
[00:21:44] S0: Yeah, yeah, exactly that. So yeah, it literally you can just expand your mind with all this sort of stuff. So yeah, world models, it's good to see them coming even more into the conversation. I think they're going to be an increasing part of our lives going forwards. And you know, again, you can just imagine if you are looking for a property and you can world sim at that property search and very Other things which is coming down the track, and obviously it's a lot of stuff that we're looking at right here. It's gonna be it's gonna be amazing. So, yeah, um, watch this space, it's gonna be fun. Uh all right, um, next up, um, we wanted to talk about uh large language models from Europe because there is at least one. So we've got Mistral over in France, and they have um launched open weight models. The large one is the one that I really like because it's called Le Chonk. It's chonky. And uh so these openweight models, um, this is how Europe and uh the EU is looking to try and fight back, um, is basically by releasing um open weight models just a recap. Openweight models are ones where you can see uh how it's built essentially, and you can then put it onto your system and you can train it up and you can do it broadly for free, as opposed to the closed models, which is your Claude's and your ChatGPT, which um you know that essentially have been engineered in the dark and nobody can see them, but they're obviously astonishing and can do many more things. So, Matt, yeah, I know that um yeah, you're always um keen to see um whether these things actually are going to stand up against some of the bigger guys. Uh, where do you see this one landing?