00:50:35 · Vincent Weisser
[00:50:35] S3: basically, I think like well, like, in some ways, like, leading American efforts actually are Nemotron and actually like Aussie with the Trinity models. So both of those we're like very deeply involved in. And so I think those will continue to to like lead like with like American open source. Like we have like some of our own models cooking. And and then, like, we help a a ton of customers over there. So I think there will actually be, like, a huge resurgence of, like, Frontier open models coming out of The US, also led by players like NBA itself and a lot of our customers and partners. So, yeah, I think, like, in in general, I think the interesting geopolitical question is actually what happens with Chinese open malls. Right? It's like like, obviously, we've seen news that, like, China might consider, like, export restricting them, like and and and, like, there might be policy dimensions on on both the Chinese and The US side. Right? So it's like, I think this is, I think, actually, in some ways, the motivation to build a stack and and to also push American open source forward is to have, like, less reliance on malls that might get banned any day. Be it all more close. Right? It's like I I think this is something increasingly, like, a lot of enterprises are starting to to realize that, like, there's actually huge dependence, right, in the sense on like, mainly from the policy side. So this is something I think where we want to just, enable everyone to have, like, their own end to end FrontiOpenStack to be able to create their own models. And ultimately, think like there there will be like there's obviously a lot of like now, like also Neolabs and and LoftMRI actually like thinking about things quite in a quite open way. So I think it will be surprised that this may be one of the hot takes is to see more Neolabs release open models. Like a good example that we also partnered with recently was a poolside, for example. People were expecting them to be closed, but they actually opened up their models. So I I think there will be more of those, especially given there are, like, hundreds of well funded Neolabs now. Yeah. I think there will be huge resurgence just like of, like, the age of research in terms of, like, these nail labs, like, pursuing truly novel directions. Right?
00:52:40 · Vincent Weisser, Jordi Hays, Rodrigo Liang
It's, like, going where, like, the big labs almost can't go necessarily, taking big, like, bold bets that also might not pay pay off all of them. Right? Or, like, if you have 100 shots on goal, like, some of them will probably pay off and result in interesting outcomes. So I think this is, like, really also, I think, what we are empowering, right, is is kind of, like, helping these new nail labs and and big AI natives and enterprises to move much faster and not have to basically all build the same stack each by themselves in house. Because obviously, a of them are like tiny teams of like tens of people instead of like thousands. So we're able to like help them move much faster basically, But I'm adopting our sec. [00:53:20] S0: When you hear of a, you know, major American tech company, let's say, someone [00:53:29] S4: in [00:53:29] S0: the mag seven that has extra capacity, do you reach out to them? Do you get do you do you do you ping them? Are you at the scale yet that that a deal would be interesting to them? Or are they really searching for these, you know, $10,000,000,000 plus opportunities?
00:53:29 · Jordi Hays, Vincent Weisser, John Coogan
[00:53:29] S0: the mag seven that has extra capacity, do you reach out to them? Do you get do you do you do you ping them? Are you at the scale yet that that a deal would be interesting to them? Or are they really searching for these, you know, $10,000,000,000 plus opportunities? [00:53:47] S3: For sure, like, we already are, like, sourcing, like like, pretty large clusters, so it's, like, sometimes, like, up to, like, five to 10,000 GPUs. So it's, like, we we basically, like, looking at every source and pocket of supply that we can find. Like, we've literally turned every stone to find, like, the last tribute available on earth. And, like like, we we've we've been quite good at at that. So it's like in in some ways, like, I think we're, like that that has been, like, one of the core tenants almost, like, since the beginning is that, like, we we really didn't want it to, like, orchestrate, like, the global compute supply efficiently. So we did a lot of, like, optimization fault tolerance and this retraining even in the early days to, like, train across, like, distributed compute. So it's, like, definitely I I think to this question, it's, like, like, I think it's something that we're definitely, like, considering. Like, if there's any anyone with some spare GBUs here, you can always set us up. [00:54:40] S1: That's great. Alright. Back on on China, do you agree with my perception that if there is some sort of lockdown on Chinese open source export controls, that would not affect
00:54:40 · John Coogan, Jordi Hays
[00:54:40] S1: That's great. Alright. Back on on China, do you agree with my perception that if there is some sort of lockdown on Chinese open source export controls, that would not affect [00:54:56] S0: Yeah. Are they mad that American companies are distilling on or or post training their open source models? [00:55:03] S1: It was by design. That was goal of the project. But I what what I'm what I'm interested about is is would they try and claw back access to Kimi or GLM, any of those models that are already been deployed? Because there's an element of, like, once the the weights have been downloaded, it's sort of just out there. Of course, you could go and try and, like, sue every company, but that's very hard if you're in an American jurisdiction and you're a Chinese company. But how would you see that playing out? Would it just be going forward, no more open source, and that's the CCP telling Chinese companies or some other shape of of of, like, restriction?
00:55:03 · John Coogan, Vincent Weisser, Byron Boots
[00:55:03] S1: It was by design. That was goal of the project. But I what what I'm what I'm interested about is is would they try and claw back access to Kimi or GLM, any of those models that are already been deployed? Because there's an element of, like, once the the weights have been downloaded, it's sort of just out there. Of course, you could go and try and, like, sue every company, but that's very hard if you're in an American jurisdiction and you're a Chinese company. But how would you see that playing out? Would it just be going forward, no more open source, and that's the CCP telling Chinese companies or some other shape of of of, like, restriction? [00:55:43] S3: Yeah. I think it's really hard to know. I think, like, a good example was, like, in some extent, like, the most popular Chinese malts already have been closed for Nommo, is coin. Right? Like, in some ways, like, they've actually, like changed their licensings Mhmm. And stopped almost closing. So I think there will be both, like, companies changing their policies, right, but then also I think like, probably like state intervention, right, it's like in different shapes or form. Mhmm. So I think basically, one can't rely on the steady stream of frontier open, like, releases out of China in many ways, but it's, like, brought from different perspectives. And I think, similarly, a lot of other sovereigns, like, obviously, including The US also doesn't want to build on on necessarily Chinese op mods. It's like Mhmm. [00:56:23] S2: I think
00:56:23 · Byron Boots, Vincent Weisser, Rodrigo Liang
[00:56:23] S2: I think [00:56:23] S3: a lot of American enterprises, obviously, also, like, sovereign use cases, like, need American op mod, but I think similar for for other continents. Right? It's like, I think there there's been a lot of work, obviously, and and we're, like, collaborating with people also across Europe, across India, across other geos. So it's like, I think we'll we'll see a much more, like, multipolar, I think, open, like, ecosystem of, like, open frontend models. So I think that's, like, a healthy, like, balancing away from just relying on Chinese open models, even though they've obviously, like, been a great accelerant of, like, open source progress. I think it's also unhealthy to rely just on that ecosystem. [00:57:01] S4: Yeah. [00:57:02] S3: And, yeah, like, I think we'll be like, there will be, I think, a bunch of, like, quite unpredictable changes similar to all. Like, the last few months have been quite unpredictable Mhmm. I think, to everyone involved. So I think this will continue to be the case in the sense that it will be, like, quite a dicey policy like, AI policy landscape for the next few years. Mhmm.