Lenny's Podcast: Product | Career | Growth
00:36:08 · Lenny Rachitsky, Zevi Arnovitz
[00:36:08] S0: These are my favorite kinds of podcast guests. People that are living in the future, figuring out all these things and then are just kind of come back, as you said, poke your head out of the rocket ship and just like, "Hey, here's this thing that I figured out. Here's where we're going." [00:36:20] S1: Yeah, best time to be alive. So awesome. So it looks like it's finished. So now what we're going to do is we're going to run the app locally and we'll be able to see what Composer ended up building and we're going to see if anything else is needed on our end to maybe do some manual review. Does that sound good? [00:36:42] S0: Sounds great. And I love, that was like, I don't know, a few minutes where if it was a human engineer, it'd be like days, maybe a week for work. [00:36:49] S1: For sure. Yeah, for sure. No, Composer like the one thing is it's just so, so blazing fast, keeps you in flow. So yeah, full features take minutes. [00:37:00] S0: And it probably costs a couple bucks in AI credits. [00:37:04] S1: I don't even look. I used to be so stingy about paying for products and now I'm just basically, I look at it all as tuition, as stuff that I'm paying for learning. So I don't know how much it costs, but it's definitely worth it. [00:37:18] S0: That explains why they're the fastest growing products in history. [00:37:21] S1: 100%.
00:37:21 · Zevi Arnovitz, Lenny Rachitsky
[00:37:21] S1: 100%. [00:37:23] S0: Your marketing website sets the tone for your brand and is the one touchpoint that every single one of your customers sees. In today's age, if you're still having a hard time making small changes and simple updates to it, you are doing something wrong. That is why so many companies from early stage startups to Fortune 500s, including companies like DoorDash, Zapier, Perplexity, and ElevenLabs turn to Framer, the website builder that turns your .com from a formality into a tool for growth. Framer works like your team's favorite design tool and comes with real-time collaboration, a robust CMS with everything you need for great SEO and advanced analytics that includes integrated AB testing. Changes to your Framer site go live to the web in seconds with a single click and without any help from engineering. Whether you want to launch a new site, test a few landing pages or migrate your full.com, Framer has programs for startups, scale-ups, and large enterprises to make going from idea to live site as easy and fast as possible. Learn how to turn your website into a growth engine from a framer expert or get started building for free today at framer.com/lenny, that's framer.com/lenny. Rules and restrictions may apply.
00:37:23 · Lenny Rachitsky, Zevi Arnovitz
[00:37:23] S0: Your marketing website sets the tone for your brand and is the one touchpoint that every single one of your customers sees. In today's age, if you're still having a hard time making small changes and simple updates to it, you are doing something wrong. That is why so many companies from early stage startups to Fortune 500s, including companies like DoorDash, Zapier, Perplexity, and ElevenLabs turn to Framer, the website builder that turns your .com from a formality into a tool for growth. Framer works like your team's favorite design tool and comes with real-time collaboration, a robust CMS with everything you need for great SEO and advanced analytics that includes integrated AB testing. Changes to your Framer site go live to the web in seconds with a single click and without any help from engineering. Whether you want to launch a new site, test a few landing pages or migrate your full.com, Framer has programs for startups, scale-ups, and large enterprises to make going from idea to live site as easy and fast as possible. Learn how to turn your website into a growth engine from a framer expert or get started building for free today at framer.com/lenny, that's framer.com/lenny. Rules and restrictions may apply. [00:38:33] S1: So now we have this feature, which basically we built and I can ask it to make some changes because it's running locally and once it's ready, I'll be able to ship it to users. So now the next phase after I've QA'd it and basically tested it manually, I'll have Claude review its own work. So what I'll do is I'll reopen Claude Code.
00:38:33 · Zevi Arnovitz, Lenny Rachitsky
[00:38:33] S1: So now we have this feature, which basically we built and I can ask it to make some changes because it's running locally and once it's ready, I'll be able to ship it to users. So now the next phase after I've QA'd it and basically tested it manually, I'll have Claude review its own work. So what I'll do is I'll reopen Claude Code. [00:38:56] S0: I love this because this is one of the things that comes up a lot in this podcast is writing code is now so easy. The main challenge people have is reviewing the code that AI has written. [00:39:05] S1: 100%. [00:39:05] S0: And what you're doing here is you're having Claude review its own code.
00:39:08 · Zevi Arnovitz, Lenny Rachitsky
[00:39:08] S1: Yeah, so this is another thing where it's very difficult for me to catch mistakes. So my review process has gone through a bunch of iterations to really be as good as possible and to catch as many things as possible. So I'll always manually QA at first to make sure if I can see any mistakes that Claude made. And then what I'll do is basically /review. And this tells Claude to start reviewing its own code. But what's even cooler and something that I'm really proud of is I will usually do multiple reviews and I'll have Codex, which is ChatGPT's competitor to Claude Code, as well as cursor open, and I will have each of them review the code. And then what I do is I have a /command called peer review, which is really interesting. And basically what it does is it's going to take Claude, which is usually the agent who I'm working with. And just to put this in a mental model, this is basically my dev lead that I'm working with. The /command is basically saying, "You're the dead lead on this project. Other team leads within the company have looked at your code and reviewed it and found these issues." Don't take what they said at face value. The reason is you have more context than them and you led this project. You need to either explain why the stuff they found are not real issues and wrong or fix them yourself. And it's really cool because the way I look at these things is I look at the models, I try to imagine them as people and I can really tell you how each one of these would be as a real human because they have- [00:40:54] S0: Each model.
00:40:55 · Zevi Arnovitz
[00:40:55] S1: Yeah. Each model has such distinct characteristics. So let's say Claude, she would be the perfect CTO. She's very communicative. She's very smart. She doesn't just go with the flow and do whatever you tell her. She's very opinionated, but also super collaborative, which is I think why I'm always drawn to Claude because I need to do so much learning and it's your dream, a very communicative, but very opinionated dev lead, but then there's also Codex. So I use Codex 5.1 Max, whatever. I don't know, they're not the best at naming models, but GPT's model. I always imagine it as like the best coder within the company who comes to the office with a hoodie and sandals and sits in a dark room. And you basically only bother him when you have the worst bugs and you say, "Listen, we have this bug and it will just close the door for two hours and come out and say, I fixed it." And you're like, "Wait, what? Are you going to tell us what happened or whatever?" And he's like, "Don't worry about it. I fixed it." It's like really not communicative, but it solves all the worst problems. And let's say Gemini is like a crazy scientist who's super artsy, super talented at designing, but if you sit next to it and watch it work, it's terrifying. You would fire that person instantly. This might be just my experience, but when I'm using Gemini within antigravity, which is Google's new competitor to Cursor, when it's writing code, you can see the steps it's taking and it's terrifying. You'll say, "I want you to redesign the top of the dashboard." And you're looking at its thought process and it will say, "Oh, first things first, I'll delete the dashboard." And then it'll be like, "Nope, that was a mistake. I'll bring it back." And then it will say, "Oh, can I edit the database?" And you're like, "No, do not edit the database. You're just doing a redesign." And then it will end up designing something beautiful. So the way there is a rollercoaster and very scary, but at the end of the day, Gemini is very good at design. So I think that using all these models and basically playing to their strengths and mitigating their weaknesses by using other models is a game changer for me. So I'll do peer review a bunch of times and I'll have other models review other models code and kind of have them fight it out basically.