Acquired
03:03:26 · David Rosenthal, Ben Gilbert
[03:03:26] S1: Yeah. Twenty years. [03:03:26] S0: Yep. Now on to expense ratios. Vanguard's average ETF and mutual fund expense ratio is now down to 0.07% with some ETFs, like the one that I'm in, the VOO, is 0.03. The industry average across mutual funds and ETF is 44 basis points. So that is six and a half times Vanguard's average. So even after all these years and all the Vanguard affecting, there is still quite a bit of difference between Vanguard and the industry average. [03:04:03] S1: The average mutual fund out there. [03:04:05] S0: Yep. Yes. Notably, not the average passive index fund because basically everyone has had to meet Vanguard there. But it's interesting how the Vanguard effect has even dragged down the active public managers too. [03:04:16] S1: Yes. Yes. [03:04:17] S0: 84% of Vanguard's funds have outperformed their peers over the last ten years. They have 20,000 employees. They have 50,000,000 investors worldwide. But notably, the last thing I'll say is a little over 90% of their investors and their investor capital is in The US. So they are not nearly as global as BlackRock or Invesco or Franklin Templeton. Yep. So alright. Should we do analysis? [03:04:43] S1: Well, on this one, I have one more thing Oh. Before we go into analysis. [03:04:49] S0: Oh, lay it on me. [03:04:50] S1: Oh. Listeners might have noticed, we never really said what happened to Wellington. [03:04:58] S0: Oh, in the divorce? After the divorce. [03:05:00] S1: Yep. The crazy thing, they went on to build their own trillion dollar firm a 100% devoted to active management.
03:05:00 · David Rosenthal, Ben Gilbert
[03:05:00] S1: Yep. The crazy thing, they went on to build their own trillion dollar firm a 100% devoted to active management. [03:05:13] S0: It's the anti vogal. [03:05:14] S1: So if you know anything about the active management space today, Wellington Management Company is one of the largest players out there. And, yes, it is the very same Wellington Management Company all the way back to Philadelphia and Walter Morgan. [03:05:30] S0: So they built this giant pure active firm in the era that massively bent toward passive indexing. Yes. So was it the same four guys that sort of stayed and rebuilt it?
03:05:30 · Ben Gilbert, David Rosenthal
[03:05:30] S0: So they built this giant pure active firm in the era that massively bent toward passive indexing. Yes. So was it the same four guys that sort of stayed and rebuilt it? [03:05:41] S1: So after Jack left, the original four IVAS partners took over the firm and slowly rebuilt it into something new. Remember, it had been a public company. They retake it private in a management buyout. And then they basically radically reconfigure what Wellington is. They go out and they recruit a bunch of young, talented, new partners to come in, and then they restructure the partnership into a sort of progressive generational transfer where senior partners age out of their equity in the firm and then younger partners age in. And it's worked incredibly well for them. So the second half of the nineteen eighties as the stock market rebounds, Wellington management gets totally rebuilt. At one point in time, they take over management of MIT's endowment, like the actual MIT. What? The Massachusetts Institute of Technology. They obviously have always been in equities. They built a debt practice, a private capital practice, an alternatives practice. They go international. But probably their closest sort of comp today is Capital Group, the giant firm in Los Angeles that we talked about. Wellington manages about 1,300,000,000,000 in assets today. Capital Group manages 3,000,000,000,000, so larger, but, like, both very well respected. And then the best part, Wellington management still does the investment management for the Wellington fund within Vanguard even to this day.
03:05:41 · David Rosenthal, Ben Gilbert
[03:05:41] S1: So after Jack left, the original four IVAS partners took over the firm and slowly rebuilt it into something new. Remember, it had been a public company. They retake it private in a management buyout. And then they basically radically reconfigure what Wellington is. They go out and they recruit a bunch of young, talented, new partners to come in, and then they restructure the partnership into a sort of progressive generational transfer where senior partners age out of their equity in the firm and then younger partners age in. And it's worked incredibly well for them. So the second half of the nineteen eighties as the stock market rebounds, Wellington management gets totally rebuilt. At one point in time, they take over management of MIT's endowment, like the actual MIT. What? The Massachusetts Institute of Technology. They obviously have always been in equities. They built a debt practice, a private capital practice, an alternatives practice. They go international. But probably their closest sort of comp today is Capital Group, the giant firm in Los Angeles that we talked about. Wellington manages about 1,300,000,000,000 in assets today. Capital Group manages 3,000,000,000,000, so larger, but, like, both very well respected. And then the best part, Wellington management still does the investment management for the Wellington fund within Vanguard even to this day. [03:07:27] S0: Really? [03:07:28] S1: And that Wellington fund not only still exists, it has a $110,000,000,000 in assets today.
03:07:28 · David Rosenthal, Ben Gilbert
[03:07:28] S1: And that Wellington fund not only still exists, it has a $110,000,000,000 in assets today. [03:07:37] S0: So it's technically a Vanguard administered fund, but the investment advisory is done by Wellington Management. [03:07:44] S1: Company. Same as always. It's this incredible story. And Jack and the IVAS partners eventually reconciled. In the early nineties, Jack goes up to Boston. They all sit down to dinner, and they're like, hey, you know, we have gone our separate ways. It's been a long time. It's time to bury the hatchet. And the relationship between Vanguard and Wellington has never been better. Wellington manages several other Vanguard active equity funds and portfolios for them as well. Amazing. How crazy is that? That really, like, is kinda heartwarming. [03:08:20] S0: It is. And what a way to wrap the story. It's full circle. [03:08:22] S1: What a way. Yeah. Yeah. Alright. Let's move into analysis. [03:08:25] S0: Okay. So my big question here in analysis, and I've got some playbook themes that I wanna hit, but I've been cliff hanging from earlier. Why do you think outside of some mutual insurance companies, REI, some local grocery stores, why isn't it more popular to see this mutual ownership structure in our world? [03:08:48] S1: Yep. Well, I I think you could argue that the NFL in its own way is this, obviously, not to the fans, but to the constituent teams.
03:08:48 · David Rosenthal, Ben Gilbert
[03:08:48] S1: Yep. Well, I I think you could argue that the NFL in its own way is this, obviously, not to the fans, but to the constituent teams. [03:08:57] S0: The NFL was I actually don't I disagree with the NFL take. I think the NFL take is it's a collective bargaining agreement. It was you know, the year is whenever it was, 1960, 1961. By linking arms and bargaining together, we're gonna get more for our TV deal than we would independently. They observed that working, and then they just decided we're gonna be taking that stance for everything and negotiate as one league going forward. This is different, which is can we avoid having another party to our entity, the shareholder? And can we get everything that we would need out of shareholders, primarily capital, out of our customers? And maybe that's why it works uniquely for Vanguard and for sort of asset management is because the product is capital, you can tap your customers for the thing you would normally tap investors for. [03:09:55] S1: Yep. You definitely need to have the ability to do that. I mean, even Vanguard's real estate on their campus in Malvern, when they were constructing that, they tapped the shareholders. They tapped the fund holders for essentially construction loans Oh, interesting. To construct the campus. Yes. You do need to have enough capital in the base and ability to do that in order to fund your fixed costs.