00:07:35 · S2, Charlie Gearside, Adam Miller
[00:07:35] S2: But then, like, the counterexample of that is this whole kind of founder mode thing that took over probably about a year ago where people like Brian Chesky were, like, coming back in who are more generalists. Like, Brian's a designer and, you know, a creative at heart. Yeah. And then there's a whole, like, Steve Jobs coming back in. Yeah. Do you think that there's a role for, like, the generalist CEO? Like, you know, Tim's a generalist. You're probably more creative than Tim. [00:07:59] S0: It's the CEO. Like, the CEO part... You're right. It's like the ultimate generalist. Right? So if you're the CEO, there's there's that role for you. But if you're realistically an executive, you need to sort of Yeah. Be strong in, like, your area. Yeah. And thankfully, like, Tim is, like, an absolute amazing, like, generational CEO in so many different areas. Like, many of which were areas that, you know, like, marketing and stuff that we we both worked on. So, like, I felt even more comfortable that, like, I wasn't leaving a Yeah. Much of a Yeah. A hole. [00:08:36] S1: Yeah. And you mentioned balance before, the lack of it. It's like when you look at your past six years with you can... Being at a hyperscaling company, like, were there periodic elements of balance and peace or is it retrospectively? It was just always pushing it to the limit, and it just always felt like chaos.
00:08:36 · Adam Miller, Charlie Gearside
[00:08:36] S1: Yeah. And you mentioned balance before, the lack of it. It's like when you look at your past six years with you can... Being at a hyperscaling company, like, were there periodic elements of balance and peace or is it retrospectively? It was just always pushing it to the limit, and it just always felt like chaos. [00:08:55] S0: Yeah. I think that's a good read. Like, there's definitely... Like, I was very much a project guy, so, like, if we had to launch an app... Like, we launched our first mobile app. I was like, alright. I'll run with that. That would be my project for six months, cross functional team, that kind of thing, or launch a new brand or, yeah, work on health coaching or or whatever. So for me, it was very much like sprint and then sort of working out in between what to work on. Yeah. It's like this... I don't know. It's just the way I the way I personally like to work.
00:08:55 · Charlie Gearside, S2
[00:08:55] S0: Yeah. I think that's a good read. Like, there's definitely... Like, I was very much a project guy, so, like, if we had to launch an app... Like, we launched our first mobile app. I was like, alright. I'll run with that. That would be my project for six months, cross functional team, that kind of thing, or launch a new brand or, yeah, work on health coaching or or whatever. So for me, it was very much like sprint and then sort of working out in between what to work on. Yeah. It's like this... I don't know. It's just the way I the way I personally like to work. [00:09:36] S2: Yeah. What what I'm really fascinated about is that your kind of conception of your own identity. Because when I... Like, when anyone meets you, you're very humble. You're very, like, Australian. Like, if I think of an Australian bloke, I think of you. Like, I think of someone that likes sport. I think of someone that is, like, you know, humble and, like, curious and kind and stuff. Is there ever a point in which, you know, there was an ego about scaling a big company, an ego of, like, talking to VCs? And maybe they actually didn't get that archetype. I didn't get that because I think this will then flow onto the content you're creating now and and the vision for Australia. But I wanna kinda set the scene with if you've ever had to bring out different sides of yourself or you ever felt that you had to, like, push that side of you down.
00:10:21 · Charlie Gearside, S2
[00:10:21] S0: Yeah. I think you do because, like, if you look at c suite ASX 200 companies and you, like, did a profile or so... Like, a personality profile of, like, those people Yeah. You'd probably say, okay. They're, like, a little bit aloof. Like, they need to, like, maintain this separation between... Like, they need to, like, stay up here and say no to things so they can stay at a strategic level. Yep. There's probably, like, a focus on presence as well because, like, they're dealing with an exec team that is very ambitious and whatever, and they sort of have to, like, alpha those those people in a way. So, like, those two things are just not not me Yeah. At all. Like, I love talking to the people, like I said, doing the actual work. Yeah. So, like, I think for a while, that was like, why aren't I good at this? Why... I should be more serious. Mhmm. I should try and be more like, you know, more like x or y. [00:11:23] S2: But was there ever a moment on the journey where maybe, like, Eucalyptus taking off maybe, like, think three, four years ago, and you maybe noticed a sense of ego coming up maybe in the way you showed off to your wife or your friends, or do you think you've always kept this, like, humble identity? [00:11:38] S0: Yeah. I I I think they're definitely testing times where you're, like, maybe getting a little bit big for your boots, I think. The therapy part is just... It was the critical part [00:11:47] S2: because
00:11:47 · S2, Charlie Gearside, Adam Miller
[00:11:47] S2: because [00:11:48] S0: it's like you... It... That was just an exercise in, like, being true to my... Like, learning to be true to myself and not be, like, embarrassed or or... Yeah. Just be be comfortable. [00:12:02] S2: Yeah. Yeah. Whether you're starting and scaling your company's security programs, demonstrating top notch security practices and establishing trust is now more important than ever. Vanta automates compliance for global frameworks like ISO two seven double o one and SOC two. And the latest Australian frameworks like CPS two three four [00:12:21] S1: and Essential eight, saving you time and money while helping you build trust with your customers. [00:12:26] S2: Over 8,000 global companies like Atlassian, FireAnt, Handle, and Tactiq.io use Vanta to manage risk and prove security in real time. Our audience gets a special offer of 1,000 off Vanta at vanta.com.au/sachinandadam. [00:12:43] S1: What did you discover in those therapy sessions, and how did that help you give this sort of, I guess, maybe this acceptance of this decision to move away from Euc?
00:12:43 · Adam Miller, Charlie Gearside
[00:12:43] S1: What did you discover in those therapy sessions, and how did that help you give this sort of, I guess, maybe this acceptance of this decision to move away from Euc? [00:12:53] S0: I think it was... Well, my my therapist is like this, like, 60 year old South African. So he's, like, saying some shit. And he's, like, like, he used to teach business at Macquarie Uni. So he's not, like, a full therapist as well. He understand, like, organizations and whatever. And it was just like... Like, for me, it was like him... I was just talking to him about, like, where I think... I was... I'm super hard on myself, it always has me. And it's like, for me, it was like, explain to him, hey, why aren't I good at this? Like, you know, like, when it comes to this interaction in this one on one, why, like, why can I not coach this person properly? And then it sort of, like, over time, he sort of nudged me in the direction that, like, maybe it's like you don't like doing that. And then it became like essentially, oh, what are the positives of being that way rather than just being super hard on myself like the negatives of like, oh, why can't you deliver feedback perfectly or all that kind of stuff. Yeah. [00:13:56] S1: This is very authentic because most of the time in the startup world, you just hear sort of notions of do do it at any cost. Like, I'll I'll shape shift myself to get to that next level of growth, to get to this revenue figure. Like, you'll sort of do it at any cost. But this is like a very, like, authentic expression of, like, accepting who you actually are.