00:10:21 · Charlie Gearside, S2
[00:10:21] S0: Yeah. I think you do because, like, if you look at c suite ASX 200 companies and you, like, did a profile or so... Like, a personality profile of, like, those people Yeah. You'd probably say, okay. They're, like, a little bit aloof. Like, they need to, like, maintain this separation between... Like, they need to, like, stay up here and say no to things so they can stay at a strategic level. Yep. There's probably, like, a focus on presence as well because, like, they're dealing with an exec team that is very ambitious and whatever, and they sort of have to, like, alpha those those people in a way. So, like, those two things are just not not me Yeah. At all. Like, I love talking to the people, like I said, doing the actual work. Yeah. So, like, I think for a while, that was like, why aren't I good at this? Why... I should be more serious. Mhmm. I should try and be more like, you know, more like x or y. [00:11:23] S2: But was there ever a moment on the journey where maybe, like, Eucalyptus taking off maybe, like, think three, four years ago, and you maybe noticed a sense of ego coming up maybe in the way you showed off to your wife or your friends, or do you think you've always kept this, like, humble identity? [00:11:38] S0: Yeah. I I I think they're definitely testing times where you're, like, maybe getting a little bit big for your boots, I think. The therapy part is just... It was the critical part [00:11:47] S2: because
00:11:47 · S2, Charlie Gearside, Adam Miller
[00:11:47] S2: because [00:11:48] S0: it's like you... It... That was just an exercise in, like, being true to my... Like, learning to be true to myself and not be, like, embarrassed or or... Yeah. Just be be comfortable. [00:12:02] S2: Yeah. Yeah. Whether you're starting and scaling your company's security programs, demonstrating top notch security practices and establishing trust is now more important than ever. Vanta automates compliance for global frameworks like ISO two seven double o one and SOC two. And the latest Australian frameworks like CPS two three four [00:12:21] S1: and Essential eight, saving you time and money while helping you build trust with your customers. [00:12:26] S2: Over 8,000 global companies like Atlassian, FireAnt, Handle, and Tactiq.io use Vanta to manage risk and prove security in real time. Our audience gets a special offer of 1,000 off Vanta at vanta.com.au/sachinandadam. [00:12:43] S1: What did you discover in those therapy sessions, and how did that help you give this sort of, I guess, maybe this acceptance of this decision to move away from Euc?
00:12:43 · Adam Miller, Charlie Gearside
[00:12:43] S1: What did you discover in those therapy sessions, and how did that help you give this sort of, I guess, maybe this acceptance of this decision to move away from Euc? [00:12:53] S0: I think it was... Well, my my therapist is like this, like, 60 year old South African. So he's, like, saying some shit. And he's, like, like, he used to teach business at Macquarie Uni. So he's not, like, a full therapist as well. He understand, like, organizations and whatever. And it was just like... Like, for me, it was like him... I was just talking to him about, like, where I think... I was... I'm super hard on myself, it always has me. And it's like, for me, it was like, explain to him, hey, why aren't I good at this? Like, you know, like, when it comes to this interaction in this one on one, why, like, why can I not coach this person properly? And then it sort of, like, over time, he sort of nudged me in the direction that, like, maybe it's like you don't like doing that. And then it became like essentially, oh, what are the positives of being that way rather than just being super hard on myself like the negatives of like, oh, why can't you deliver feedback perfectly or all that kind of stuff. Yeah. [00:13:56] S1: This is very authentic because most of the time in the startup world, you just hear sort of notions of do do it at any cost. Like, I'll I'll shape shift myself to get to that next level of growth, to get to this revenue figure. Like, you'll sort of do it at any cost. But this is like a very, like, authentic expression of, like, accepting who you actually are.
00:13:56 · Adam Miller, Charlie Gearside
[00:13:56] S1: This is very authentic because most of the time in the startup world, you just hear sort of notions of do do it at any cost. Like, I'll I'll shape shift myself to get to that next level of growth, to get to this revenue figure. Like, you'll sort of do it at any cost. But this is like a very, like, authentic expression of, like, accepting who you actually are. [00:14:16] S0: Yeah. Yeah. I think it's like you... Yeah. I mean, the best founder CEOs are able to do it and... Or maybe they shape their sort of business to them. And this was... For me, it was kind of like, oh, maybe there's something else that's that's more attuned to what to the way I like to work and and who I am.
00:14:46 · S2
[00:14:46] S2: Well, I think it's... You know, if you look at so many of the generational founders and you hear this story time and time again, a lot of them are, like, very traumatized. Right? And I think what trauma does is it allows you to blunt certain emotions. So maybe it's like they... There are those feelings there, but they're just blunted and then you're not actually let go. And I think, you know, we... We're very early in our journey, but we've done so many, like, kind of periods of things that we didn't like doing or didn't give us energy. Right? And there was this balance where you kind of have to do a bunch of them initially. Right? But I think there is this scaling thing where someone... People get so used to doing whatever it takes to be successful, that whole, like, really intense David Goggins mindset that they just blunt how they're actually feeling towards the thing. Yeah. And they probably look back and they're like, you know, when that... When those feelings actually do come out, I think a lot of people realize that they weren't doing the thing that gave them energy Yeah. Which is like, you know, for a lot of people that is the thing that's more actualizing than, you know... I think there's so many, like, artists and and struggling musicians that are way, way happier than founders that are just in the grind on the thing that I love.
00:15:46 · Charlie Gearside, Adam Miller, S2
[00:15:46] S0: Yeah. And I suppose in saying that, I don't wanna minimize the grind because it's like, I think I'm... Eucalyptus got to a stage where, like, I was able to Yeah. Like, start thinking about these things. Yeah. And I think the grind is important, and you have to do everything, including stuff you don't wanna do at the start. But it's like... It... Yeah. It's a it's a good point. It's like, it definitely makes your life better if you stay in your, like, hitting Mhmm. [00:16:09] S1: Kitting zone. [00:16:10] S2: When you look back on on on the journey, what are, the the moments that, like, you light up about? Like, when you when you want to have grandkids, what moments will will you tell them about this journey? [00:16:20] S0: Yeah. I mean, there's been so many, like, pinch me moments that's I mean... But but the mundane ones for me, like, even our first office, we, you know, we're in the spriggy office and... Like, we have this view that you have to start at a shit office. And it always has to be a little bit shitter than what... How the company's going. And so we've had, what, three offices over time. The first one, like, exploded over, like, our CTO's head. It was a spooky office. Like, actual sewerage. For OHN's reasons, I can't... Cannot comment. [00:17:01] S1: That's, like, the most gnarly office I've heard. [00:17:05] S0: It was [00:17:05] S1: worse than Max and Nadine. [00:17:06] S0: Yeah, dude. It was crazy. And I I remember there was someone from Canada that was like, man, that'll, like, that'll, like, bond the team. And I'm like,