Second in Command: The Chief Behind the Chief with Cameron Herold
00:07:21 · Cameron Herold, Gaurav Agarwal
[00:07:21] S2: Interesting. Is that similar to what Go High Level is doing right now where they're almost creating these, like, apps that you can almost white label and use? Is that a similar model? [00:07:32] S0: No. I would say this is closer to what, say, an Airtable would look like if it was for SMB where Okay. It's still very much a ClickUp tool. So we're not allow... We're not white labeling it, but the consultant is the person who captures majority of the value that is built. Because, ultimately, the client, the customer still pays only the license cost to ClickUp, but a lot of the dollars is generated in the service fees, which is then captured by the consultant. [00:07:59] S2: Have you... I don't know whether HighLevel is any kind of a competitor in any way to ClickUp in in terms of, like, one or two of the little potential parts of the of the software. But what do you like and not like about that GoHighLevel almost multilevel marketing on top of a multilevel marketing model? Do you know much about that, or can you speak to that?
00:07:59 · Cameron Herold, Gaurav Agarwal
[00:07:59] S2: Have you... I don't know whether HighLevel is any kind of a competitor in any way to ClickUp in in terms of, like, one or two of the little potential parts of the of the software. But what do you like and not like about that GoHighLevel almost multilevel marketing on top of a multilevel marketing model? Do you know much about that, or can you speak to that? [00:08:18] S0: I I actually haven't looked at Go High Level. So, unfortunately, I can't speak to their use case. But the way I look at this is I see ClickUp in two ways. One, we will have opinion... So we want to consolidate the modern day work software stack. Right? So if you want to use docs or tasks, etcetera, you should just use ClickUp. But then because the platform is built in a highly structured and configurable manner, we... ClickUp is also a low code, no code workflow building tool. And on that part, I I I would love for every vendor, for every consultant to build some sort of workflow software and then eat up a whole industry. Like, we look at more of this SaaS. A lot of that is just data transformation, and what goes on top of it, and ClickUp can do that. [00:09:06] S2: That sounds like what Go High Level is doing with this kind of white labeling where these consultants are white labeling something, they're selling that solution into an entire marketplace, which is kinda what you're talking about. Yeah. How how... So you said ops nerds. It's interesting that you said that. Is operations the kinda doorway or the entry point into all the organizations for you then?
00:09:06 · Cameron Herold, Gaurav Agarwal
[00:09:06] S2: That sounds like what Go High Level is doing with this kind of white labeling where these consultants are white labeling something, they're selling that solution into an entire marketplace, which is kinda what you're talking about. Yeah. How how... So you said ops nerds. It's interesting that you said that. Is operations the kinda doorway or the entry point into all the organizations for you then? [00:09:27] S0: Yes. And when I say that, I'm just not talking about... So so I come from the world of hardware. I've I've... I did a small stint in hardware. And operations in hardware is different than operations in go to market, is different than operations in sales, is different than operations in design in product. But in all... Almost every function and every department these days, you always have a small ops group that's all about how do I make this whole department run efficiently. And how do I how do I ensure that, we we cut redundant work? We cut the work about work, and we ensure that our resources are deployed effectively. Those are our primary stakeholders. Now those stakeholders use ClickUp for all sorts of use cases from creative and design to event planning to product development to engineering. We are even using shop floors for what it's worth. Like, some of our big customers are actually automobile makers and their big names, they're used by pharma companies. But each one of them is using ClickUp to operationalize, some sort of program or some sort of project that then touches a lot of other departments.
00:09:27 · Gaurav Agarwal, Cameron Herold
[00:09:27] S0: Yes. And when I say that, I'm just not talking about... So so I come from the world of hardware. I've I've... I did a small stint in hardware. And operations in hardware is different than operations in go to market, is different than operations in sales, is different than operations in design in product. But in all... Almost every function and every department these days, you always have a small ops group that's all about how do I make this whole department run efficiently. And how do I how do I ensure that, we we cut redundant work? We cut the work about work, and we ensure that our resources are deployed effectively. Those are our primary stakeholders. Now those stakeholders use ClickUp for all sorts of use cases from creative and design to event planning to product development to engineering. We are even using shop floors for what it's worth. Like, some of our big customers are actually automobile makers and their big names, they're used by pharma companies. But each one of them is using ClickUp to operationalize, some sort of program or some sort of project that then touches a lot of other departments. [00:10:33] S2: Interesting. Okay. I wanna go into a little bit more about ClickUp ClickUp in a second, but I wanna go backwards and let's kinda figure out how you got there. I mean, you're the COO of a great software brand. How many approximately employees do you have currently? [00:10:45] S0: We have about a thousand, give or take. But...
00:10:45 · Gaurav Agarwal, Cameron Herold
[00:10:45] S0: We have about a thousand, give or take. But... [00:10:47] S2: Yeah. So you're running a real company, real moving parts. You're a true COO. How did a kid from India end up in Seattle? I mean, I knew how I have a kid from Canada ended up in Seattle. How did a kid from India end up in Seattle as the COO of a thousand person company? What's your career journey?
00:11:06 · Gaurav Agarwal
[00:11:06] S0: I I think in in some ways, I I think I I got lucky, and I was very privileged. So to give you a walk through, I I graduated in engineering, did quite well in studies. I ended up my first job out of college was actually in Singapore, and I worked for Barclays Capital. And I'm so grateful for that experience because I was in a high pressure. I was on the trading floor working on structured products, trading bonds. So I learned a lot and I did that across Singapore, London, and Tokyo. But then there was a time after three, four years and I'm like, this is not what I wanna do. I wanna actually build some stuff. And for a lot of people who grow up in India, there's just so much competition out there. People are so smart. You want to get out and you want to chase that better life outside India. You wanna you wanna go to The US. You wanna go to The UK. So I was in Tokyo at that time. And in some ways, I was pretty happy. But then I was like, you know what? I wanna... I want to actually build. So I left my job, I moved back to India. And I said, I wanna build something because, in my heart, I'm an entrepreneur. I'm a builder. And then I moved there for a company called Lensbricks that came out of MIT Media Lab, and they had an office in Boston and in India. And they... We were trying to do some smart deep learning stuff on on cameras, on video. And this was, like, fifteen years ago that has not been done before. So eventually the company ran out of money, but through that company I ended up visiting The US quite a bit. So it's interesting. I packed my bags, I go to India. In two days, I don't even get to get my house there. I was shipped to The US to go work on some, I was doing product development and customer development for them, so I I came to The US for that. And then we got into a hardware accelerator. It was a hardware product. It was a smart camera product. And through that accelerator, I made friends. So when Lensbricks went under, I I had a chance to go work for this company called Molekule, which was which was commercializing a new air purification technology. And I joined them on the business side, ran growth and e commerce for them. And that's how I moved to The US.