A Product Market Fit Show | Startup Podcast for Founders
00:53:47 · Jonathan Awad
[00:53:47] S0: Yeah. So why would they share their data first is a really good question. And a lot of it was gathering the interest from a large group where no one is actually first. And then along the way of the conversation, you're like, well, what else would you like as well once you do share this? What score? What calculation? What other data? And then we picked up so many other products that by the time we really like launched, we launched with a compound complex product suite. We launched with five products at once. And we launched with like, call it 15 customers at once, basically, right? And that's what it really worked. You just have to, you know, strategy is so difficult for most people because we don't actually know what it is. It's a word. It means nothing. And that's a really fun part about it. The fact that most people don't know what the word strategy means. They don't actually have a strategy. One of my favorite books of all time is my strategy. I think there's like one really excellent book. It's Good Strategy, Bad Strategy by Richard Rumelt. It's the best book any founder listening to this. Listen to that book. You listen to that book and like, because I did the audio. You can read it, but the audio books are, I think, better. 20 minutes in, you're like, I don't have a strategy at all. Dang it. Like, it's just one of those moments that just punches you in the face of like, because it just, it starts with, this is all of the bad ways to think about strategy. This is if you don't have a strategy. This is what you think. This is what you do. And it gives all these examples of all the times there was no strategy. Bad, bad, bad, bad, bad. And then you're like, wait, it sounded like me. And then you just, boom, punch in the face. And if you get through the whole thing, it then tells you how to do a good strategy, obviously. And now it's even better. You could put it into Claude. That's what we did at a strategy offsite. Throw it in the Claude and do a whole like, offsite with this exercise. And it was awesome. We did it multiple, we've done it multiple times. Now, like this most recent one in May with Claude, basically. And I have this really good guide if anyone wants it, you can hit me up. And it worked really well. So in the beginning of like, we talk, talk, talk, talk, and we're like, eh, no one wants to go first.
00:55:44 · Jonathan Awad, Pablo Srugo
Let's get like 15, 20 of you at once. And then what other products do you want at the same time? Because you don't want to implement just for like, this thing. Because it would be kind of empty of a thing. It's only 15 or 20 institutions. It's not as valuable, but like, what else do you want? It was a moment to get all these other pieces of information. [00:56:02] S1: And did you refer like, hey, these guys are doing it. So like, you'll be part of it. Absolutely. Yeah. Okay. That's the key. It's kind of like when you're throwing an event, right? And they're like, why would I go? Like, well, this person, that person's going. And you don't know that person's that person, but you just tell them all like, hey, all these people are going. And ultimately, you deliver the truth because they're all going because they're all going and they all show up, you know?
00:56:18 · Jonathan Awad
[00:56:18] S0: The truth of the matter is, and it is what it is, and we're past this point, so I'm happy to say it. The truth of the matter is, if you're not willing, if you're selling a product like this, like a network product, or hey, who's using it? Oh, I say, who's using your product? Who else uses it? If you're not willing to massage the truth a little, you will never succeed. Just, that's it. I'm going to say it. A lot of people said it in private. I'll say it in public. You will never succeed because your product could be amazing, but a lot of people make a decision who have used it. So if the answer is a catch-22, circular loop, you will never get out of the loop. So you have to massage the truth a little bit, but it's because you've had so many conversations. A lot of people are interested. Do that for customer stuff. I don't think you should do it for investor stuff. I think a lot of founders get caught up lying about the investor side of things. I think that's a huge mistake because all these investors talk so easily. Never name drop an investor who's not actually in your round when you're trying to raise your round because it will come back so fast and you're able to buy you in the ass. Definitely never, ever do that. First off, never name drop an investor you're talking to ever anyway, but very different, in my opinion, on the customer side because these institutions are so big. You're like, yeah, we're talking to Stripe. Who are you talking to Stripe? Who knows? It kind of doesn't matter, right? So that's the type of thing. There's ways to massage it. There's ways that it's super useful and it works. Who is, are you talking to Stripe? Yeah, you could imply that they're working with you. And it's like, oh, it's fine. It's kind of like a simple thing to do and it works super, super, super well and it has never bitten me in the ass. I'm going to say it. It is what it is. On the investor side, never do it. I learned the hard way from my friends. A bunch of my friends did it. It totally backfired and I heard it through other investors. Never do that huge faux pas.
00:58:00 · Pablo Srugo, Jonathan Awad
[00:58:00] S1: Well, I think on the customer side, like you obviously have to know where the line is, but the way I think about it is if you're selling to a big company, there's so many layers behind the person you're talking to that you have to somehow enable them to go win for you. And if you're just like, hey, we're like, we just were born yesterday and we have zero customers, like, you know, then now they have to relay that information. They can't, because they'm keeping themselves, they're doing something wrong now. So you have to give them enough where they, you know, when they get asked that question, hey, like, are they talking to anybody else? They can be like, yeah, well, they told me they were talking to a lot of people. I haven't looked at it, but they told, [00:58:32] S0: okay, good enough. Let's move on, right? It is what it is. Some of our customers or prospects see this like, [00:58:38] S1: it's fine. [00:58:39] S0: It is what it is. We have hundreds of customers now. It is what it is. For the founders, for the people that this matters, if you're not massaging it a bit, you're not trying. Your product is not magic 99.99999% of the time. It's not that easy to use. It's not that easy to understand. I'm telling you, you're not the exception. You have to inspire confidence. You have to get something to work with. And if you're just like, yeah, no idea what we're doing. No one else has tried it. Please waste your, not waste your time, but like, please give us your super valuable time to improve our product for free. We're not giving you advisor equity. We're not.
00:58:39 · Jonathan Awad, Pablo Srugo
[00:58:39] S0: It is what it is. We have hundreds of customers now. It is what it is. For the founders, for the people that this matters, if you're not massaging it a bit, you're not trying. Your product is not magic 99.99999% of the time. It's not that easy to use. It's not that easy to understand. I'm telling you, you're not the exception. You have to inspire confidence. You have to get something to work with. And if you're just like, yeah, no idea what we're doing. No one else has tried it. Please waste your, not waste your time, but like, please give us your super valuable time to improve our product for free. We're not giving you advisor equity. We're not. [00:59:18] S1: Try it out. [00:59:19] S0: And then tell all your friends. Why would they do that? Like genuinely, why would they do that? It's stupid. Don't do that. [00:59:27] S1: Any last piece of advice, like top piece of advice? I mean, we mentioned a lot of things. I think we've delivered a lot of value, but anything else top of mind for founders, early stage founders looking for product market fit.
00:59:27 · Pablo Srugo, Jonathan Awad
[00:59:27] S1: Any last piece of advice, like top piece of advice? I mean, we mentioned a lot of things. I think we've delivered a lot of value, but anything else top of mind for founders, early stage founders looking for product market fit. [00:59:36] S0: Things that I do that help me are very simple and nobody does it. I have little post-it notes everywhere around my apartment, on the mirrors, on anywhere like on my desk. And they're very happy, as for inspirational, affirmative things. They're such a useful thing to do. If you don't have super positive self-talk, you're not going to make it. If you can't overcome anxiety of any little thing that's giving you anxiety, it's really going to be uphill, really difficult. You should understand that, especially if you've raised any money at all, you're in the top 1% of people in the world. This is amazing. You're so lucky. Like just be grateful. It's painful, but so what? You need that perspective to manage and to survive. [01:00:19] S1: Like it's, [01:00:19] S0: you're, you got to get out of your head, have a few friends that you talk to [01:00:23] S1: and just like vent it out [01:00:24] S0: and then keep it happy and remember all the wins. Like everything's a win. Anything's a win. You got to just say super, super positive because it's a long journey and there's going to be crap. Like crap is not a bug. It's a feature. Bad things happen normally. So if you just like get over it really fast and take it as a gift, then you're going to crush and you have to do that to crush, especially in sales, especially if you've