A Product Market Fit Show | Startup Podcast for Founders
00:36:51 · Pablo Srugo, Jonathan Awad
[00:36:51] S1: if you want to build a multi-billion dollar company, you're going to compete at a global scale. And if you have competitors who are deciding to work the way you're working, then somehow you're going to produce like two X or three X, the output per hour for you to actually compete with them. Like you're either going to have to figure that out, which is in theory possible. And I'm sure there's going to be somebody that's like, Hey, I built a big company and I, I never worked this hard, but that that's what you're going up. That's just a reality. And then you got to decide like how you want to kind of, you know, tweak your odds, you know, and, and how much work you want to put in to still be able to perform, you know, relative to that. Yeah. I think it's just so important because my, [00:37:26] S0: I think like the success that we had was in a very specific type of method that just takes so much time and so much effort, [00:37:35] S1: which is just really outreaching and being as valuable as possible. Yeah. So tell me about that. Like you're, you're going on, like, let's start with outreach, right? Like back then, especially who are you reaching out to or getting intros?
00:37:35 · Pablo Srugo, Jonathan Awad
[00:37:35] S1: which is just really outreaching and being as valuable as possible. Yeah. So tell me about that. Like you're, you're going on, like, let's start with outreach, right? Like back then, especially who are you reaching out to or getting intros? [00:37:46] S0: You're going cold. Like, what are you saying to them? What are you asking for? You know, all that stuff. There's a bunch of discourse on cold DMs work, cold tweets work, cold emails work. I hear you on that. I don't think I've done it that much. And I don't know if it's better than what I've done. And what I've done is really just put myself out there. I go to so many events. I go to so many conferences. I meet so many people. I like, I talk to so many people. I make great relationships with so many people. And then they introduce me to other people. It really does work so well that way. And if you do sheer number of volume and you're so valuable to people, eventually they will reciprocate. And it is kind of that simple. It's just a sheer amount of volume required to do that is the difficult part. Like, I think people underestimate what I mean when I say reaching out to anyone you've ever met who's even adjacent. Like somebody, for example, would be like somebody you went to college with, who's mutuals with someone at a bank. And you literally, you reach out as well. [00:38:47] S1: Like, hey man, I'm starting to tell you, would love to catch up. Or just like, hey, what do you say to that person? I mean,
00:38:47 · Pablo Srugo, Jonathan Awad
[00:38:47] S1: Like, hey man, I'm starting to tell you, would love to catch up. Or just like, hey, what do you say to that person? I mean, [00:38:52] S0: if you went to college with them, it's like, hey, what's going on? Like, been a while. I'd love to catch up with you. Seems like what you're up to is, you know, you're doing cool things. Like, it's been too long. [00:39:01] S1: Let's catch up. [00:39:02] S0: A lot of that, like, if you do a lot of that, and you've made some friends before, and then you just become useful to them, and you try to integrate them in your life. So now, like, it really is just a lot of that. I think for people to think that they haven't met that many people, it's just like, you're wrong. I think it's just people are shy and awkward about reaching out. And like, that might feel cold, but it's not cold at all, actually. You just have to kind of constantly put yourself out there, [00:39:26] S1: go to a very, well, I think part of it, at least if I'm thinking about it, like, part of it is your bar for value or ROI. In other words, you look at somebody like that, and you're like, I just don't really think, I'm going to get anything out of it. I'm going to spend 30 minutes. It's worth my time. But if you just get rid of that, you're like, it could be useful. There's like a 1% chance that's good enough. You're going to meet a lot of people. And a lot of them are going to be a waste of time, but like, some of them won't.
00:39:26 · Pablo Srugo, Jonathan Awad
[00:39:26] S1: go to a very, well, I think part of it, at least if I'm thinking about it, like, part of it is your bar for value or ROI. In other words, you look at somebody like that, and you're like, I just don't really think, I'm going to get anything out of it. I'm going to spend 30 minutes. It's worth my time. But if you just get rid of that, you're like, it could be useful. There's like a 1% chance that's good enough. You're going to meet a lot of people. And a lot of them are going to be a waste of time, but like, some of them won't. [00:39:47] S0: Exactly. But that's kind of the issue. A lot of them could be a waste of time, or seem like a waste of time in the moment, and then they change jobs, and then they make a friend, and then they go and do something different. Or they just get senior somewhere, and then they're useful, because they have a bunch of useful, cool friends. So when you look at people like, dollar signs, it really just doesn't go very well. But you look at people like, hey, you seem cool. You seem great. You seem like you're doing something interesting. I'm doing something interesting. There's no reason why we shouldn't be friendlier. There's so much serendipity that comes out of it, and I think people just totally underestimate that. And it's worked so well for me. It's just an immense amount of work, because of what you said, like a bunch of things. Are you a waste of time in the moment?
00:39:47 · Jonathan Awad, Pablo Srugo
[00:39:47] S0: Exactly. But that's kind of the issue. A lot of them could be a waste of time, or seem like a waste of time in the moment, and then they change jobs, and then they make a friend, and then they go and do something different. Or they just get senior somewhere, and then they're useful, because they have a bunch of useful, cool friends. So when you look at people like, dollar signs, it really just doesn't go very well. But you look at people like, hey, you seem cool. You seem great. You seem like you're doing something interesting. I'm doing something interesting. There's no reason why we shouldn't be friendlier. There's so much serendipity that comes out of it, and I think people just totally underestimate that. And it's worked so well for me. It's just an immense amount of work, because of what you said, like a bunch of things. Are you a waste of time in the moment? [00:40:28] S1: Well, you've got to do basically 12-hour days, seven days a week, because you've got to do eight hours times five for the meetings, another four to just figure the shit out, and then you've probably got to do another 20, 25 hours on the weekends, just to get work done and move the ball forward.
00:40:41 · Jonathan Awad
[00:40:41] S0: And I did a lot of all-nighters. If you're not doing any all-nighters, you don't have enough on your plate. You're not loading yourself up with enough people to get back to, things to respond to, things to build. Your timelines, for when you think it's acceptable to do a task, is too long. I'm all about like, what do you mean today? Like, we could just do that today. It'll take two minutes, just do it today. And if you do enough, it'll take 10 minutes to do it today. Well, you could think of probably 100 things, and that's 1,000 minutes. So, 1,000 minutes, it's like, we can think of a lot of things that take 10 minutes, and I'm all about doing it today. And so there's so many things, like, you end up doing just an all-nighter. And we did so many all-nighters, Tim and I, shout out to Tim, as always. We've done multiple all-nighters, two all-nighters back to back. We just put super aggressive timelines. We promise it. We're like, well, if we did all-nighter, could we finish it? And we're like, well, yeah, we could. I'm like, well, why aren't we? What are we waiting for? Like, I really always tell people the SLA of 20 minutes is so important. The reaching out to a few hundred more people, 200 more people, that first message, that first touch, do it today. If you do it today, the clock starts from now. I'm all about that, and I think people just miss that, because it's hard. I think, you know,