A Product Market Fit Show | Startup Podcast for Founders
00:35:30 · Pablo Srugo, Jonathan Awad
[00:35:30] S1: big goal. [00:35:30] S0: But he's like, if you're not so, so, so, so, so urgent, what are you doing? Why are you doing it? Like you're going up against people with, I mean, I'm single, like no kids. Like I have nothing else that I care about more than bass layer. And I have friends who work just as much more than me. Your weekends are fully stacked. Like every single minute is totally dedicated to this. And I mentioned like Adderall caffeine. Like I sleep, I sleep six hours probably a night and I go to the gym five days a week. But besides those two things, essentially like I've cut out anything that doesn't help me grow, evolve, learn, get better at my craft and like get better and meet more people. It's that's who you're going up against. I mean, obviously to bring up the easy examples, like the Corgi guy, it's a little ridiculous, but I kind of get what he's getting at. Seven days a week, he sleeps in office, whatever that is. Like it would help though, right? It definitely would push you further and faster. And obviously they raised three times this year. They went from like a bill to four bill valuation. It's clearly working no matter what anybody says. Like if your goal is to do X, there are ways to do it that are extremely uncomfortable, extremely painful and extremely lonely, quite frankly, right? Like I obviously have tons of friends, but I don't see them very often. I have tons of work friends and like other types of friends. Yeah, this is, I mean, it's not about, you know, recommending or not recommending at the end of the day. It's like,
00:36:51 · Pablo Srugo, Jonathan Awad
[00:36:51] S1: if you want to build a multi-billion dollar company, you're going to compete at a global scale. And if you have competitors who are deciding to work the way you're working, then somehow you're going to produce like two X or three X, the output per hour for you to actually compete with them. Like you're either going to have to figure that out, which is in theory possible. And I'm sure there's going to be somebody that's like, Hey, I built a big company and I, I never worked this hard, but that that's what you're going up. That's just a reality. And then you got to decide like how you want to kind of, you know, tweak your odds, you know, and, and how much work you want to put in to still be able to perform, you know, relative to that. Yeah. I think it's just so important because my, [00:37:26] S0: I think like the success that we had was in a very specific type of method that just takes so much time and so much effort, [00:37:35] S1: which is just really outreaching and being as valuable as possible. Yeah. So tell me about that. Like you're, you're going on, like, let's start with outreach, right? Like back then, especially who are you reaching out to or getting intros?
00:37:35 · Pablo Srugo, Jonathan Awad
[00:37:35] S1: which is just really outreaching and being as valuable as possible. Yeah. So tell me about that. Like you're, you're going on, like, let's start with outreach, right? Like back then, especially who are you reaching out to or getting intros? [00:37:46] S0: You're going cold. Like, what are you saying to them? What are you asking for? You know, all that stuff. There's a bunch of discourse on cold DMs work, cold tweets work, cold emails work. I hear you on that. I don't think I've done it that much. And I don't know if it's better than what I've done. And what I've done is really just put myself out there. I go to so many events. I go to so many conferences. I meet so many people. I like, I talk to so many people. I make great relationships with so many people. And then they introduce me to other people. It really does work so well that way. And if you do sheer number of volume and you're so valuable to people, eventually they will reciprocate. And it is kind of that simple. It's just a sheer amount of volume required to do that is the difficult part. Like, I think people underestimate what I mean when I say reaching out to anyone you've ever met who's even adjacent. Like somebody, for example, would be like somebody you went to college with, who's mutuals with someone at a bank. And you literally, you reach out as well. [00:38:47] S1: Like, hey man, I'm starting to tell you, would love to catch up. Or just like, hey, what do you say to that person? I mean,
00:38:47 · Pablo Srugo, Jonathan Awad
[00:38:47] S1: Like, hey man, I'm starting to tell you, would love to catch up. Or just like, hey, what do you say to that person? I mean, [00:38:52] S0: if you went to college with them, it's like, hey, what's going on? Like, been a while. I'd love to catch up with you. Seems like what you're up to is, you know, you're doing cool things. Like, it's been too long. [00:39:01] S1: Let's catch up. [00:39:02] S0: A lot of that, like, if you do a lot of that, and you've made some friends before, and then you just become useful to them, and you try to integrate them in your life. So now, like, it really is just a lot of that. I think for people to think that they haven't met that many people, it's just like, you're wrong. I think it's just people are shy and awkward about reaching out. And like, that might feel cold, but it's not cold at all, actually. You just have to kind of constantly put yourself out there, [00:39:26] S1: go to a very, well, I think part of it, at least if I'm thinking about it, like, part of it is your bar for value or ROI. In other words, you look at somebody like that, and you're like, I just don't really think, I'm going to get anything out of it. I'm going to spend 30 minutes. It's worth my time. But if you just get rid of that, you're like, it could be useful. There's like a 1% chance that's good enough. You're going to meet a lot of people. And a lot of them are going to be a waste of time, but like, some of them won't.
00:39:26 · Pablo Srugo, Jonathan Awad
[00:39:26] S1: go to a very, well, I think part of it, at least if I'm thinking about it, like, part of it is your bar for value or ROI. In other words, you look at somebody like that, and you're like, I just don't really think, I'm going to get anything out of it. I'm going to spend 30 minutes. It's worth my time. But if you just get rid of that, you're like, it could be useful. There's like a 1% chance that's good enough. You're going to meet a lot of people. And a lot of them are going to be a waste of time, but like, some of them won't. [00:39:47] S0: Exactly. But that's kind of the issue. A lot of them could be a waste of time, or seem like a waste of time in the moment, and then they change jobs, and then they make a friend, and then they go and do something different. Or they just get senior somewhere, and then they're useful, because they have a bunch of useful, cool friends. So when you look at people like, dollar signs, it really just doesn't go very well. But you look at people like, hey, you seem cool. You seem great. You seem like you're doing something interesting. I'm doing something interesting. There's no reason why we shouldn't be friendlier. There's so much serendipity that comes out of it, and I think people just totally underestimate that. And it's worked so well for me. It's just an immense amount of work, because of what you said, like a bunch of things. Are you a waste of time in the moment?
00:39:47 · Jonathan Awad, Pablo Srugo
[00:39:47] S0: Exactly. But that's kind of the issue. A lot of them could be a waste of time, or seem like a waste of time in the moment, and then they change jobs, and then they make a friend, and then they go and do something different. Or they just get senior somewhere, and then they're useful, because they have a bunch of useful, cool friends. So when you look at people like, dollar signs, it really just doesn't go very well. But you look at people like, hey, you seem cool. You seem great. You seem like you're doing something interesting. I'm doing something interesting. There's no reason why we shouldn't be friendlier. There's so much serendipity that comes out of it, and I think people just totally underestimate that. And it's worked so well for me. It's just an immense amount of work, because of what you said, like a bunch of things. Are you a waste of time in the moment? [00:40:28] S1: Well, you've got to do basically 12-hour days, seven days a week, because you've got to do eight hours times five for the meetings, another four to just figure the shit out, and then you've probably got to do another 20, 25 hours on the weekends, just to get work done and move the ball forward.