00:07:15 · Jay Madheswaran
[00:07:15] S0: if I win, I lose, because my costs of carrying the case are gonna be higher than the actual potential outcome even if I win. That's exactly right. I mean, think about, like, most people here have been in a car accident, fender bender of some sort. If it's below the deductible, no lawyer in America will touch that case. It's just not economically worth it. Even if deductibles 3,004 thousand dollars to an individual, that is a difference between a paycheck being gone versus not. And there's no representation they can get for that. And the reason is actually, from their side, we have to understand it from their side too. So let's say you've been getting harassed at work, and your employer could stop it. Like in hospitality industry, let's say, you could tell your customers, Hey, don't harass my employees, and change processes to make that happen. Today, that doesn't happen, because when that person gets calls, the lawyer on the other side has to pick up a call, field that call that's about thirty to forty five minutes of work, and then after that, go do legal research, because in employment in America, pretty much everything's at will, and you have to tie a problem to a protected class of some kind, and it's called causes of action. So you have to tie it to a cause of action, and that work requires them to go spend ten hours to go research your case law, research the facts, go back and forth, ask them more follow-up questions to see if they qualify. And while they spent all that time, they might still realize, Hey, this doesn't even make me $5,000 So that is why ninety six percent of cases on the labor and employment side, for example, gets rejected.
00:08:54 · Alex Rampell, Jay Madheswaran
[00:08:54] S1: So you can never find anybody to represent you unless you come out of pocket, many times people don't have money to come out of pocket. [00:09:00] S0: That's exactly right. So you just kinda take it, unless something really egregious happens. And that is the current state, and it's all bottlenecked on legal labor. And this is what Eve is meant to do, is to how do you now take that ten hours, is now immediate with Eve. A call comes in, Eve actually answers the call, and automatically uses his insights on the law firm to know whether or not this is a case the lawyer has to take on or not, and then hit the ground running with a demand or the initial preliminary work done. And that completely changes the economics of that type of case, and we're still at the very beginning stages. What's happening is Eve is getting more and more capable of handling outcomes end to end over a very long horizon. These cases take six months, a year to launch, and through them, probably a thousand actions back and forths that are happening. And as accuracy of Eve is getting higher and higher, this long horizon becomes possible. So the more this becomes possible, even more complicated work gets amortized down to a constant case. So now all these people without representation get representation. And if you really ask yourself, how many times in your life if asking for legal help wasn't a friction point, would you have asked it? That number is way higher than we think.
00:10:17 · Alex Rampell, Jay Madheswaran
[00:10:17] S1: Yeah. So it's a funny story. This is a true story. I was in Blue Bottle, a little coffee shop in Los Altos, and I was explaining Eve to somebody probably nine months ago. And I was explaining it because most people think of AI as like, oh, you're gonna fire everybody and cut costs, and it's all about cost savings. And it's like, no. Actually, like, if I use Eve, I make a lot more money for my firm. And it's not because I'm cutting costs. It's like I can take on more cases. It's actually revenue expansion. So I'm explaining this as as an outsider investor can, so not as well as you probably would. And at the end of this... I mean, we were talking about many topics, but Eve came up. And this guy comes up to me. He looks a little angry. He has a big dog, and I'm kind of afraid of big dogs. And he's like, what was that company you were talking about? I was like, uh-oh. Is he gonna get mad? He's like, I'm a trial attorney. I wanna try it. [00:11:01] S0: Oh, great. [00:11:02] S1: So I got you a new customer there. [00:11:03] S0: Thank
00:11:03 · Jay Madheswaran, Alex Rampell
[00:11:03] S0: Thank [00:11:04] S1: you. But the whole point is that you expand the revenue opportunity. But maybe kinda walk through, like, what do the dynamics... Because everybody is driven on 101 or I 95. I 95 is the corridor that goes from Florida all the way up to to Maine or something, you know, up and down the Eastern Seaboard. And it's like, I've driven almost all of that, and it's like, I feel like half of the ads are for trial attorneys, plaintiff's law. So they're obviously advertising there because you want... They they wanna get called. It's like, hey. I I I have this accident or I have this issue, but what do the economics look like? So, like, I I spend all... This is why, again, I think Eve is so fascinating because I have to turn down 90% of the leads that I'm getting, I assume. Right? Or, like, what what do the numbers look like? I spend money on a billboard. I get lots of inbound. How many of those turn into cases? How many of those cases turn into revenue? Maybe kind of like a before and after because you are, you're not a cost savings play for lawyers, you're a revenue expansion play for them. That's from the legal side. But what do the economics look like for
00:12:02 · Jay Madheswaran
[00:12:02] S0: a law firm? That's exactly right. When most people drive by, they see the face, and they forget about the people behind them, and the amount of work every single call actually takes. That's what happens today. That's what Eve is there to help with. And the math on the law firm side is very simple. The more people you represent, typically speaking, the more money you make. But because you can take on more people, and you honestly are denying and not taking on many cases because they're too expensive to take on, the demand from their perspective is not really constrained. It's really the supply of labor. Like, do I have enough people inside to actually service that problem? And to make things more complicated, different firms here are in different realms of problems where the bottleneck keeps shifting. So a small firm might just have one attorney that has a case manager or some sort of office manager that feels initial call and just notes it down, and then the lawyer then responds back in their free time. They're kind of running chaotically, running around. And then there's a next level, which is they find a way to systematize it. They have an intake team, like a call center somewhere that intakes it, and now that becomes a new bottleneck. So now when you increase your marketing spend, let's say you looked particularly attractive in that billboard, and a lot of people are calling in, suddenly now that team is overwhelmed, and you're limited again by how many people you can represent. Right. And this is the daily challenge these small businesses are dealing with. They're small businesses, they're not massive enterprises. They want to represent individuals, and everyone here went to law school, not business school. They want to be there for the people. So we're basically consolidating all of that into the Eve platform, such that they are getting pulled in only for what they need to. Their lawyer insights, their particular insights, on how do they take this case, Eve keeps raising the floor, how do I take it from this floor to the next level? And that is where I believe really all lawyers spend time, talking to their people and helping get client outcomes. Well, this is kind of
00:14:14 · Alex Rampell
[00:14:14] S1: the the market failure point to a certain extent, which is I could serve all 5,000 leads that came in if only I could hire a paralegal for 12¢ per hour, right, or whatever the token cost of it. But it's like, I can't. Mhmm. So I would just... There's no labor market that could actually function. But with AI now, I can. I mean, do do you have anecdotes of just, like, kind of before and after? It's just like, you know, like, hair club for men. It's like, you know, here I am before, here after. Have a nice hair... Head of hair. But, like, what... What's that for kind of your best customers that you work with? I imagine the revenue transformation is pretty significant.