01:26:21 · Jordi Hays
[01:26:21] S0: How are you? What's the overall semi analysis company view on the, like, market side, like, personal agent market sizing? Because people have tried to do... Like, I think some people... Like, reading into the the meta earnings call, I think people... I was at least a little bit surprised to see that, like, shopping was the number one use case just simply because shopping on the sites that Muse supports, like Shopify stores, is already so efficient. Like you just can't... It'd be hard to actually... Like if you tell your Muse agent to buy something at the same time that you have the product that you wanna buy, like it's not like there's real, like, time savings. Yeah. And people and this idea that, like, people like shopping. So how are you guys thinking of that market? When I see that Meta is doing a $95,000,000,000 equity financing, I'm assuming that they're still gunning for this sort of AGI SI vision and it's not really in service of the personal agent product that they have traction with right now. But what's the broader outlook? Joe, you want to take this? Or...
01:27:32 · Joey Brookhart, John Coogan
[01:27:32] S8: Yeah. I mean, think... Look. They're they're still very determined in enterprise AI in achieving AGI there. And, you know, I think in '27, we'll see them monetize new enterprise pretty quickly. You know, they always in consumer when it's a new ad format, you know, we see delayed monetization. Obviously ecom, just any of like their ad markets today, serve ecom travel, know, will be big areas in consumer as well and we know consumers don't like to pay for stuff. Yep. So taking a cut or advertising some performance based outcome is the way it will be monetized. And I think we can get to the point where they talked about on the call where your consumer agents are talking to business agents and they facilitate that transaction and, you know, take 5%. [01:28:15] S1: Yeah. Yeah. It seems like Zach or Meta internally is still just like a little bit cagey about being like, we're going to make a ton of money off of ads. And so they'll they'll frame it differently in the press releases, but the the big dollars come from advertising when you're in the meta organization. Doug, you mentioned your Muse Maxi, your Clog Code Maxi. Do you have any linkages between your two agents? I'm interested in your philosophy around, like, will you have a super agent that talks to everything at some point? Or are you happy to have two tools, two tabs, two apps?
01:28:49 · Doug O'Laughlin, John Coogan
[01:28:49] S6: I I think I'm happy to have two two tools and two tabs mostly because I think of Muse as intensely my personal. Sure. Like, I don't let it touch my work email. And then I think of Cloud Code is... Like, has a lot of the in... Inner linkages with my work email. Sure. I don't think it says proactive. Like, I am kind of excited. Like, let's just say, like, for better or for worse, Anthropic really has positioned itself as the enterprise solution. Yep. And if they have a really solid enterprise clawed, you know, clawed muse or whatever, I'm probably gonna use it just because I do kind of trust their safety to a certain extent. Like, they sure be talking about it in their s one. So I think Yeah. I think I think that that's how I've mentally bucketed it versus, like, you know, Meta has all my data anyway. So Sure. And, like, you know, I'm scrolling on... I'm doom scrolling on Meta Yeah. On on on Reels. What's what's the difference between doom scrolling on Muse versus Reels? Yeah. It's like It's [01:29:42] S1: of essentially buying It's like it's like you have an executive assistant at work and then your Claude instance will be like a executive assistant extension and then you have a personal assistant at home if you're doing very very well And your muse agent can be your sort of personal assistant. And these two might interface, but they're separate. [01:30:02] S6: Well, it's different. Might interface. Like, actually, usually what it is, it's forwarding emails one to the other.
01:30:02 · Doug O'Laughlin, John Coogan, Jordi Hays
[01:30:02] S6: Well, it's different. Might interface. Like, actually, usually what it is, it's forwarding emails one to the other. [01:30:06] S1: Sure. Sure. Yeah. But but actually having that clean line is great and that's the way a lot of extremely high net worth individuals set up their lives. They have someone who works at the the company, and then they have someone that works at their family office, and they too can communicate, but they are in separate organizations. So maybe that's [01:30:21] S6: a I think it's good from a a separation perspective, but, like, I I don't know. I also just think that, like, you know, the personal assistant stuff, it is really sick to just, like... I know the the lamest one, everyone's like, oh, just reads your emails, but, like, dude, I got a lot of emails, man. I think a lot of people, it's like, okay. For example, you have a kid's birthday party, and you're, like, organizing the kid's birthday party and like you just like, oh, your your wife sends you some reel and there's like, hey, I wanna go to school. You're like, you're... [01:30:47] S0: Kid's teacher says describe your child in three whole... [01:30:50] S1: That was a bad example.... [01:30:51] S0: Stumped, you know. That was a bad example.
01:30:51 · Jordi Hays, John Coogan
[01:30:51] S0: Stumped, you know. That was a bad example. [01:30:54] S1: But no, mean I I had an interaction where I had emailed someone to to do something and they had to actually update something on a website and they said that they were going to do it and then Dot in this case like went and checked like a week later and said like, oh, haven't done it. Like you should follow-up with them and just make sure that they actually finish that task. Those types of little like follow ups are more useful and it's more than like it would require me not just reading my email inbound, it would mean reading my outbox and checking up on the things that I asked to do which is like complete laboriousness that no one wants to do. Now, what is the willingness to pay of everyone for that? How do you monetize that? You know, travel. You know, Americans don't spend that much on discretionary travel all the time. So you take a small cut of that. These aren't necessarily quadrillion dollar markets immediately but Yeah. They are very interesting and and can grow a lot. [01:31:49] S0: Final question I forgot to ask you earlier, Joey. Did you wanna see more on their actual tokenomics like more granular data on margin profile across different models [01:32:03] S1: Oh, things yeah. Like [01:32:04] S0: Because I think some people were hoping to see more. But in some ways I look at it and I'm like, how much money did you spend? How much money did you make? Yeah. Everything else is kind of like your business. But what's your view? Feels like full employment Yeah. For some
01:32:04 · Jordi Hays, Joey Brookhart, John Coogan
[01:32:04] S0: Because I think some people were hoping to see more. But in some ways I look at it and I'm like, how much money did you spend? How much money did you make? Yeah. Everything else is kind of like your business. But what's your view? Feels like full employment Yeah. For some [01:32:16] S8: Yeah. There was a number in there that 80% of the revenue in the last three months were from models in the last released in the last six months. So I think that was the extent of detail we got. I don't think they're going to get much more detail than that. I know they've given some inference gross margin numbers before. If you have that and the training, I think that gets you most of the way there in terms of understanding this business. And then too, they gave a lot of good detail I think on the cloud service partner. Yeah. Your relationships and the revenue running through that and kind of the economics they're paying from a revenue share perspective. So I think you have enough detail here to really understand the business and you know, how it's going to move going forward. [01:32:57] S1: Yeah. Have you been tracking how the big labs are using pricing pressure against open source models? Is there a world where the labs get to such scale and such efficiency that they can distill their own models to a point where they can be price competitive in some way just to sort of stave off the open source ecosystem a little [01:33:22] S0: exactly what's happening. [01:33:24] S1: It feels like that's what's happening, but what's your take from like an economic perspective?