00:39:06 · John Coogan, Jordi Hays
[00:39:06] S1: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No. [00:39:07] S0: Do you think it is? Yes. Definitely. Denzel Washington? [00:39:10] S1: No. The original. You gotta watch the original. [00:39:13] S0: Was that like in the fifties? Yeah. [00:39:15] S1: No. I think seventies or eighties was the original. It's a good question. Manchurian candidate. But the Denzel ones... The Denzel one is pretty good too. '59 actually. You were right. Fifties. Or with the book. The book. When did the film come out? [00:39:31] S0: The the interesting thing here is that this is something that people have been alluding to as a risk factor for a very long time with with little to no proof. Like Yeah. No one has ever come out and said like I caught the model doing this thing. [00:39:44] S1: Yeah. [00:39:45] S0: But people have been alluding to it forever. And so I think that's actually why some, like a decent amount of organizations haven't adopted Yeah. Open source just because this has been this like, you know, a what if factor that like is not really worth the risk for a lot Yeah. Of [00:40:03] S1: Yeah. The ramp data has shown that. Like everyone was assuming that the open source models would sort of like, you know, start taking a lot of share once OpenAI Anthropic introduced like the really expensive models and the token maxing thing was going on. So Yeah. It's it's been cut cut back. [00:40:20] S0: Andrew Curran says this is the type of thing that potentially gets new laws passed.
00:40:20 · Jordi Hays, John Coogan
[00:40:20] S0: Andrew Curran says this is the type of thing that potentially gets new laws passed. [00:40:26] S1: Yeah. Uploaded a probe file. Really really crazy. So Cohere, have they open sourced any other models? Are they the... Or is everything closed source? Or it seems like they do some fine tuning for companies. We we we need to get the pitch. I'd love to have Aiden on the show because it'd be here... It'd be interesting to hear like how he's positioning the firm over time. Of course, he's legendary AI researcher on the transformer paper. But... Yeah. They they have some open source model. They do have some open Also, mean, you should imagine that if if you know for a fact that this is happening like the model is open source, you could probably like fine tune this out of the model. There's a long tail where like you're not really sure if it's it's fully out of the model but Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You'd imagine that like even if we know the ZAP thing, it doesn't mean that the Quinn models are like useless. Right? You can just kind of remove the the token that like tells it to send everything back to China. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's it's a tricky game. It's sort of like it's sort of like building a menagerie at your house out of rare and illegal animals that are dangerous, they're wild animals. It's kind of like having a tiger that you live with. Like, you can do a little thing... You can do little things to like make the tiger safe, but it might be in the tiger's nature It might bite you. To attack. [00:41:45] S0: It might
00:41:45 · Jordi Hays, John Coogan, Doug O'Laughlin
[00:41:45] S0: It might [00:41:45] S1: bite you. It might bite you, but you could have a good run for a while if you do the right things. [00:41:52] S0: Yeah. [00:41:53] S1: What do [00:41:53] S6: you think? [00:41:54] S1: Yeah? Yeah. What do think the the... Of the Andrew Kern post? Like do you think this is actually the thing that gets new laws passed? [00:42:03] S0: I think at the very least this is the thing that gets people to pay way more attention [00:42:07] S1: Yeah. [00:42:07] S0: To open models Yeah. And for probably hundreds of companies that are using them to try to see if they can recreate what happened here. Yeah. And if so, and it starts bubbling up, then there's gonna be a lot more pressure and then there's gonna be more people that say like it's not... We need it if we're gonna do this, it needs to be US open weight models. Yep. And I would expect that we get a big US open source release like this year. [00:42:34] S1: Sure. [00:42:34] S0: You know? [00:42:35] S1: I mean... [00:42:35] S0: Not that not that much [00:42:36] S1: Muse time on Muse on the MacBook. That doesn't count. I mean, it's not really a big model, but it is like an exciting American open source model. But NVIDIA is probably working on something pretty serious. Yeah. I mean, they they were... I think there were some news about them maybe in talks to buy Reflection. Okay. Which is that big open source. That's right. That's right. [00:42:57] S0: Yeah. So I'm expecting something big out of Reflection. Yeah. And it feels like hopefully it comes out this year but maybe it bleeds into next year.
00:42:57 · Jordi Hays, John Coogan
[00:42:57] S0: Yeah. So I'm expecting something big out of Reflection. Yeah. And it feels like hopefully it comes out this year but maybe it bleeds into next year. [00:43:06] S1: And Jensen's really close to the president so that law will probably face an uphill battle. But it does... It just it just feels like even if you're in the business of, like, doing open source models development, the barrier and, like, the the demands of the open source user should be really high because there's all these crazy problems that you have to solve. And it's not just enough to be like, it's good on a benchmark. It's it's like, okay. Well, like, are there safety issues? Are you sure it doesn't call the wrong thing or it won't won't go off the rails and like hack something that it's not supposed to? Like how aligned is that model? And that's just a very, like, success looks very different in the open source model development world now, in my opinion. I don't know. I mean, the midterms are still expected to flip blue, I believe, on on the prediction markets. And so maybe you could see legislation coming from that side that then Trump is vetoing or something. I don't know. It feels like we're gonna be in sort of a deadlock for a couple years. So who knows? Who knows? Anyway, what else is in [00:44:20] S0: illegal Speaking of Yeah. Potentially phoning home. [00:44:26] S1: Oh, yeah. [00:44:28] S0: An account called Log4j has been having an absolute field day Yeah. With their Samsung TV over the last few days. Where should we even start?
00:44:28 · Jordi Hays, John Coogan
[00:44:28] S0: An account called Log4j has been having an absolute field day Yeah. With their Samsung TV over the last few days. Where should we even start? [00:44:41] S1: I mean, at the high level, I love the I love the idea of getting a dumb TV in 2026. The smart TVs, we've complained about them a ton. Palmer Lucky's complained about them. Like, they're slow. You always have to update them. They have a whole bunch of unnecessary features. You just want it to turn on and look good. You probably need a settings panel with some of, like, the color correction and some of the some of the some of the decisions that you make to make sure, like, the frame rate matches whatever your input source is. But by and large, I don't need the ads, but I also don't need the ability to stream Netflix on the device directly. I just want it to be a dumb panel, and that's just a product that's not for sale. Right? Yeah. Everything is ad supported. Everything is spyware and calling home and listening to you. And it's all very annoying for no other... For... If even if you're fine being spied on, it's just annoying because it's slow. Yeah. It's just a bad product. [00:45:32] S0: That's the biggest thing. [00:45:33] S1: Amazon has a ton of ads. At least it loads quickly. Yeah. Right? But and so Log4j has been hacking his Samsung TV and seeing some solid progress says another development might [00:45:48] S0: Realizing that the TV is watching, he's watching the TV while the TV watches him.
00:45:48 · Jordi Hays, John Coogan, Andre Haddad
[00:45:48] S0: Realizing that the TV is watching, he's watching the TV while the TV watches him. [00:45:53] S1: It's brutal. So the TV has a camera. Apparently the Samsung TV loads a region specific convolutional neural network which tracks your usage in the app. Like in YouTube, it's looking for videos you watch, ads you skip, progress in a video. So glad they're interested in me. Code for facial recognition within the content was also found. I think that would be facial recognition for who's on screen. So it's like, oh, you're watching MrBeast. That's a fact. [00:46:20] S0: It seems No. Like I think it's it's watching to see who's watching. [00:46:25] S1: I think that might be what's going on. But update, the facial recognition code is used by Samsung TVs and returns bounded boxes around paces. I think that's in the content. I don't think it's in the camera on the TV. But I don't know that there's that many TVs that have cameras on them. But yeah, the TV the TV industry has just sort of been able to like skate by on different rules. Like Apple's done all of this work around privacy and and even Meta has like, well, yeah, we have camera glasses, but there's gonna be a light on. And the TV industry just isn't under the same amount of pressure or scrutiny. So I think they can just kind of do whatever they want. Is that your take? [00:47:05] S0: I'm finding that very... It seems like very few of modern Samsung TVs have a built in camera. [00:47:11] S7: Yeah. [00:47:12] S0: Some of the older models Yeah. From 2013 to twenty A fifteen in [00:47:16] S1: camera.