Invest Like the Best with Patrick O'Shaughnessy
· Nick Kokonas, Patrick O'Shaughnessy
And he was like, "Why am I watching this?" I was like, "He made that in the '20s to promote himself. Think about that." The best living artist at that time agreed to do this thing to show the process. Why? And we ran it almost like a political campaign. We had words that we would avoid every interview. [00:00:00] S0: What words would you avoid and what words would you use? That sounds very interesting.
· Nick Kokonas
[00:00:00] S1: Two words that we would avoid were Avant Garde and science. Grant considered his cooking Avant Garde. He even thought about calling the restaurant AG. I was like, "Well, you automatically eliminate 90% of people." No one wants to eat science. It's one thing to talk about the science of what everyone was calling molecular gastronomy, but even that was a misunderstood term because it was actually coined by Hervé This and it was about the component aspect. Almost like Pointillism. It wasn't about manipulating individual molecules. So we would have press call us and ask, "Oh well, you practice molecular gastronomy. You're really into science then because you're moving molecules of food around." The guy's a chef. He's not a physicist. So those two words we avoided because I think that they alienated potential customers. And then the two words that we used in every interview and still do, fun and delicious. Because it's so simple but so hard to find. Because when you go to a great restaurant, whether that be your corner bar or the best Michelin experience you've ever had while you're traveling, I guarantee you it's fun. It's not snooty. It's not someone looking down their nose at you. You feel like you're part of this pageant that's going on in fine dining. And you should be part of it. You should be one of the actors, not an audience member. And then delicious is obvious. It has to be delicious otherwise it's just a farce. Every interview you ever see of us still to this day when someone asks about the science or the process or whatnot ... And I'm doing it right now. Everything we do has to be fun and it has to be delicious or we will not do it.
· Patrick O'Shaughnessy
[00:00:00] S0: I'll just give a quick testimonial. When I was there, the way that dessert was served was that Grant came to our table, laid down this kind of funny latex tablecloth and basically created for like a half an hour a Jackson Pollock dessert. All sorts of different ingredients. Like literally painted the dessert on our table which was incredibly fun. And of course me being me I'm asking him about where does this latex come from? Is it going to impact the taste? He said I was the first person that had asked him that question. And he was talking about its origin in the S&M industry in Europe or something at some crazy place.
· Nick Kokonas
[00:00:00] S1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's actually true. So this is a good way to show how in any business you ask the right questions. So one of the questions that we wanted to answer was that we ask the question, well when in your life do you feel like something's new? The older you get the fewer new experiences that you have. And so when you have one you kind of crave that. You're like wow that was really cool. At the same time you become more closed to them as you get older. It's natural I think. We were like, how do you become more childlike? What is a way to make an adult feel like a kid again? A number of the dishes at Alinea came out of that question. One was the balloon dessert. It's like an edible balloon. When you're a kid you get a helium balloon and literally you could play with that thing for hours. It's like magical. It floats. That's really cool. We sorted out how to make an edible helium balloon. It's so simple. It's just like a taffy. It's nothing crazy delicious. But it's wildly fun because you feel like a kid again. How in the word does a Michelin star restaurant give you a floating balloon and then make a mess of yourself while you eat it? We were asking that question. And I remember going to a museum where everything was really big. So they had like a table so that if you were a 5'10" adult and you sat down at a table you would physically feel like you were when you were three. The plates were big, the chairs were big, the counter was really high. I don't even remember where it was but it really stuck in my mind. And I said like, "Well, we should make everything giant to make you feel literally small again." And so I came up with this idea of a table plate. Literally a plate the size of a table. And we made a couple up. It was very Willy Wonka and Alice in Wonderland and all that. Had giant forks knives and stuff. It was really stupid. But as soon as you actually did that it was kind of like, well you're going to hit someone in the head with this 80-pound plate and where are you going to store it and wash it? There's practical considerations. In the midst of all that I would talk to Grant at the pass in the kitchen and he would be plating things and I would be watching him do the saucing and the plating and all that. And occasionally I'd pick up a spoon and I'd do a plate. He'd fix it.
· Nick Kokonas, Patrick O'Shaughnessy
I see what he's doing and yet I can't replicate it even though it looks simple. There was a brush stroke there born of thousands and thousands and thousands of repetition. I know what it should look like. It's just like painting. And I went back to that Picasso documentary and I was kind of like, "We should send the chefs into the dining room. Everyone wants to see the chefs anyway. And we should just have them plate on this giant plate." So it's kind of killing two birds with one stone there. The idea went away for like four or five months after the big plates because it didn't work. And just thought it was dead and then Martin Kastner at Crucial Detail was like, "Well, why does it need to be a rigid plate? You could use a different substance." And we were looking for gray latex. He found it at a sex shop in Paris. Rolls of gray latex. On the internet. Like he wasn't strolling about the sex shops in the Paris. We figured out ... We called them and were like, "Who manufactures this for you?" And they were like, "What are you into?" And we're like, "We're using it for food." [00:00:00] S0: Table food art.
· Patrick O'Shaughnessy, Nick Kokonas
[00:00:00] S0: Table food art. [00:00:00] S1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the story of how that came to be. But I think that encapsulates a lot of our thinking. That was a six or seven-month project and then we figured out how to do it once and we would do one table a night. And we would go, there's no way we could do this for every table. And then four weeks later we were doing it 30 times a night. It's a magical thing. Like Netflix Chef's Table had that on billboards in Los Angeles promoting the show. So for me it's a really weird thing because it came out of this process of three or four or five people talking about how do I make you feel like a kid again? And clearly it stuck out in your mind as a new weird, fun experience which is really what we're shooting for. [00:00:00] S0: Just to pour evidence on the pile, I still tell people about that all the time. And it's interesting to me how often businesses seem to want to go down the fairway and sort of not be risky and how incredibly boring but also how bad a business decision that is. Because if it was just a lava cake or something I wouldn't talk about it.