two & a half gamers
00:37:59 · Matej Lancaric, Darius Mora, Jakub Remiar
[00:37:59] S2: actually doing it. So [00:38:01] S0: it's a one click to move all our apps to the same thing. [00:38:04] S1: Okay. So exercises in behavioral psychology pretty much. [00:38:08] S0: Yeah. Because I mean, you know, like I think most of the apps like iOS in The US, most of the apps with a conversion rate of about 3% from installed to paying subscriber on average, also a lot of fluctuations, average, let's say to generalize 3%, at least 3% up to like 5% for some of the better apps. And so we can move from 5% to 6% conversion rate, keeping the price point high and add like a weekly compounding like you're after the races. [00:38:38] S1: Woah. Doubling the conversion is unheard of.
00:38:38 · Jakub Remiar, Matej Lancaric, Darius Mora
[00:38:38] S1: Woah. Doubling the conversion is unheard of. [00:38:42] S2: Oh, hello. Here I am. I have something very important to say. This episode is brought to you by vibe.co. Have you ever thought about TV ads and how they are just for massive brands with multimillion budgets? Yeah, not anymore. With vybe.co you can launch CTV ads on Hulu, Roku, Tubi, you name it, in minutes. It's that simple. Totally self serve. And yes, they actually drive surreal business results. So over 5,000 brands are already using it. So maybe it's your turn. Check out vive.co. That's vibe.co. Vibe.co. And enjoy. Thank you very much. Now let's get back to the episode. Also, in terms of the, like, the LTV and the time frame, is it what, like, six months that you kind of see the lifetime of the user, or is it the ROS? Not the ROS. Like, the actual, like, like, the lifetime. Not value, but, like, how long the users are staying within the app. Because, obviously, without the annual, like, if you if you do weekly or monthly, it was, six months, nine months [00:39:57] S0: Yeah, I mean, this fluctuates quite widely. For the annual, it tends to be pretty standard. See in the annual, the renewal rate will be around like 30%. Maybe 20% of people will forget and they'll just renew. [00:40:08] S2: Yeah, exactly. [00:40:09] S0: 30% up to 40% if you're doing quite well. That's on the annual. And on the monthly and weekly, like yeah, it kind of swings wildly. Like on the monthly you could have like around 6% ish. On the weekly, really like I can't confidently say 1%.
00:40:09 · Darius Mora, Matej Lancaric, Jakub Remiar
[00:40:09] S0: 30% up to 40% if you're doing quite well. That's on the annual. And on the monthly and weekly, like yeah, it kind of swings wildly. Like on the monthly you could have like around 6% ish. On the weekly, really like I can't confidently say 1%. [00:40:24] S2: No, of course. Yeah, that's fine. Yeah, yeah. I mean, Jakub, we don't really need to even look at the retention. It's just different kinds of different [00:40:33] S1: know it's different model. Models. Model, Yeah, it's curious to me. [00:40:37] S0: Lot of people... [00:40:38] S1: This is going [00:40:38] S2: to look like shit. [00:40:40] S0: We don't even measure retention. It's not a metric we look at for a lot of us. For some it matters, but a lot is just like it's the renewal rate under subscription that really drives everything. [00:40:48] S1: Okay, okay. What's the other North Star metrics you are going for, like APIs? [00:40:58] S0: The biggest one is just the renewal rate, and then it's obviously the price points at which you can convert, so the average revenue per user and average revenue per subscriber. And then conversion rates like conversion from install to start trial and start trial to paying subscriber. [00:41:13] S1: Ah, okay. So basically a much faster bucket than the games industry. [00:41:18] S0: What is the gaming KPIs they look at?
00:41:18 · Darius Mora, Jakub Remiar
[00:41:18] S0: What is the gaming KPIs they look at? [00:41:21] S1: Retention, for sure. Like it's much, much harder to kind of tack on retention because, you you're looking at top games having like 20% day 30 retention, and then users need to stay, you need to have very good live ops, meaning like recurring content that keeps them spending because our LTVs can reach thousands of dollars. Pretty much we don't care about some, subscription is just some kind of afterthought somewhere there. You have gotcha systems, usually boxes that can drive, like, for instance, my favorite game, which I'm playing yesterday, 1,500,000 a day spike on the new gotcha just because of that out of just like few, few thousands of users. So that's there. [00:42:02] S0: I think that's one major difference is that in the apps industry, we don't have whales. So if we have the, you you have the higher end, you have like a $40 subscription. [00:42:13] S1: My question will be not if you have whales, but like do you even have the depth of the economy for the whale to kind of manifest itself? [00:42:23] S0: We don't have the options for it. Really, we don't have the pricing and the monetization. We have one subscription No. On [00:42:29] S1: You take something like, I don't know, Clash of Clans, the economy is something like 100 ks plus, and you're still not at top level still. And you spend already 100 ks thousand dollars. [00:42:39] S0: That's insane. Yeah, that's more rewarding.
00:42:39 · Darius Mora, Jakub Remiar, Felix Braberg, Matej Lancaric
[00:42:39] S0: That's insane. Yeah, that's more rewarding. [00:42:42] S1: Have games, the biggest ones, you know, the Whiteout Survivor or Kingshot, the ones ads you're seeing everywhere pretty much. We have infinite economies where it's based on destruction of property, so what you have bought is being destroyed by other players, so there's infinite spending going on. [00:42:55] S3: Let's get back to Petting Spoons. Yeah, yeah, [00:43:00] S1: Four and a half. Yeah. [00:43:01] S0: I mean, in our best case scenario for us, what we would consider a whale is somebody who gets a weekly subscription and then keeps it for a year. Like that's a whale for us. [00:43:12] S1: But you know, like it's the other side of different coin because again, we have the problem with UA and distribution. The apps are, that's their forte. So [00:43:21] S2: that's Yeah, we the can borrow a lot of things from this side of the business, [00:43:26] S1: people are [00:43:27] S2: just not used to see this. It's not a lot of work, but it's different type of work. And these days UA managers are lazy, they won't do it. They just spend all the money the company has. But when you are a small company, you don't have the money, then you need to be very creative. And then how creative you can get is all the different kind of organic ways of doing stuff. Not so easy, but if you know what you are doing. [00:43:53] S0: You could also just go on TikTok, open 10 accounts, post 10 times a day to each account. You're you're gonna make it. It just requires your work.
00:43:53 · Darius Mora, Jakub Remiar, Felix Braberg, Matej Lancaric
[00:43:53] S0: You could also just go on TikTok, open 10 accounts, post 10 times a day to each account. You're you're gonna make it. It just requires your work. [00:44:01] S1: Matej, you want to take the screen with you, or... I can, yeah. Can. I actually [00:44:06] S3: wanted to ask one last question. [00:44:07] S2: Are you... You are here? Sorry. [00:44:09] S3: I wanted to ask one question, actually. Use and ratings for these apps. Right? What's the story there? Like, because I overheard a conversation that you were having at one of our breakfasts, how you essentially don't even take the bad reviews or like there's a lot of tricks you guys do there. [00:44:27] S0: Well, we can report bad reviews that don't align with some of the guidelines. So it said the review has to talk about the app specifically or some stuff within the app. I'm trying to report all the ones that just like I have a bunch of bad comments that just say this is not free, so my claim is like this is not about the app, this is just... [00:44:49] S1: So shoot down one star reviews this way?