two & a half gamers
00:36:09 · Jakub Remiar, Matej Lancaric
[00:36:09] S1: Don't even need to click. [00:36:11] S2: It's almost ten minutes apps are doing the same thing. [00:36:16] S1: Yeah, so here's the payment wall again. I think all of those have the same setup, whereas you're very, very limited in functionality that you can do, and then for subscription you can pretty Yeah, much have [00:36:27] S2: they have their own template for this. [00:36:29] S1: Yeah, yeah, [00:36:30] S2: This is how they are so successful. Because if you take the app and then you apply it, you have [00:36:35] S1: the same thing. I understand this, like [00:36:36] S2: the test and you suddenly make way more money.
00:36:36 · Matej Lancaric, Darius Mora
[00:36:36] S2: the test and you suddenly make way more money. [00:36:41] S0: This this paywall... Mean, these paywalls look quite different on the phone than you do on the emulator, but the general idea is the same. And this theme of this template has recently become popular and people have been talking about it for recently. Like the last year has become the best optinish model. And actually in my studio, we're converting all of our apps to the same exact model. We have the weekly that's pretty expensive. It tends to be around like 7 to $10 a week. And then you have the annual with a three day trial we can optionally enable. That's about like whatever, $40.50 a year, 60. And you try to push people onto the weekly actually because you get the recurring revenue from the weekly. That seems to be a really good monetization model. We've been running tests on a bunch of our apps. It's like in the short run, in the first month, they look very similar in terms of the ROI and with the LTV. But in the long run, the weekly just really compounds and does amazing work. And actually it's become so popular that now, you know, we use like RevenueCat and Adapti and Superwall to... [00:37:44] S2: All the apps kind of tools? [00:37:47] S0: Did we [00:37:47] S2: have these 3.0? [00:37:49] S0: Yeah, all of us, we use three tools basically for Paywall, RevenueCat, Adapti and Superwall. And this Paywall has become so popular that now it's a default template on Superwall, for example. So we're [00:37:59] S2: actually doing it. So
00:37:59 · Matej Lancaric, Darius Mora, Jakub Remiar
[00:37:59] S2: actually doing it. So [00:38:01] S0: it's a one click to move all our apps to the same thing. [00:38:04] S1: Okay. So exercises in behavioral psychology pretty much. [00:38:08] S0: Yeah. Because I mean, you know, like I think most of the apps like iOS in The US, most of the apps with a conversion rate of about 3% from installed to paying subscriber on average, also a lot of fluctuations, average, let's say to generalize 3%, at least 3% up to like 5% for some of the better apps. And so we can move from 5% to 6% conversion rate, keeping the price point high and add like a weekly compounding like you're after the races. [00:38:38] S1: Woah. Doubling the conversion is unheard of.
00:38:38 · Jakub Remiar, Matej Lancaric, Darius Mora
[00:38:38] S1: Woah. Doubling the conversion is unheard of. [00:38:42] S2: Oh, hello. Here I am. I have something very important to say. This episode is brought to you by vibe.co. Have you ever thought about TV ads and how they are just for massive brands with multimillion budgets? Yeah, not anymore. With vybe.co you can launch CTV ads on Hulu, Roku, Tubi, you name it, in minutes. It's that simple. Totally self serve. And yes, they actually drive surreal business results. So over 5,000 brands are already using it. So maybe it's your turn. Check out vive.co. That's vibe.co. Vibe.co. And enjoy. Thank you very much. Now let's get back to the episode. Also, in terms of the, like, the LTV and the time frame, is it what, like, six months that you kind of see the lifetime of the user, or is it the ROS? Not the ROS. Like, the actual, like, like, the lifetime. Not value, but, like, how long the users are staying within the app. Because, obviously, without the annual, like, if you if you do weekly or monthly, it was, six months, nine months [00:39:57] S0: Yeah, I mean, this fluctuates quite widely. For the annual, it tends to be pretty standard. See in the annual, the renewal rate will be around like 30%. Maybe 20% of people will forget and they'll just renew. [00:40:08] S2: Yeah, exactly. [00:40:09] S0: 30% up to 40% if you're doing quite well. That's on the annual. And on the monthly and weekly, like yeah, it kind of swings wildly. Like on the monthly you could have like around 6% ish. On the weekly, really like I can't confidently say 1%.
00:40:09 · Darius Mora, Matej Lancaric, Jakub Remiar
[00:40:09] S0: 30% up to 40% if you're doing quite well. That's on the annual. And on the monthly and weekly, like yeah, it kind of swings wildly. Like on the monthly you could have like around 6% ish. On the weekly, really like I can't confidently say 1%. [00:40:24] S2: No, of course. Yeah, that's fine. Yeah, yeah. I mean, Jakub, we don't really need to even look at the retention. It's just different kinds of different [00:40:33] S1: know it's different model. Models. Model, Yeah, it's curious to me. [00:40:37] S0: Lot of people... [00:40:38] S1: This is going [00:40:38] S2: to look like shit. [00:40:40] S0: We don't even measure retention. It's not a metric we look at for a lot of us. For some it matters, but a lot is just like it's the renewal rate under subscription that really drives everything. [00:40:48] S1: Okay, okay. What's the other North Star metrics you are going for, like APIs? [00:40:58] S0: The biggest one is just the renewal rate, and then it's obviously the price points at which you can convert, so the average revenue per user and average revenue per subscriber. And then conversion rates like conversion from install to start trial and start trial to paying subscriber. [00:41:13] S1: Ah, okay. So basically a much faster bucket than the games industry. [00:41:18] S0: What is the gaming KPIs they look at?
00:41:18 · Darius Mora, Jakub Remiar
[00:41:18] S0: What is the gaming KPIs they look at? [00:41:21] S1: Retention, for sure. Like it's much, much harder to kind of tack on retention because, you you're looking at top games having like 20% day 30 retention, and then users need to stay, you need to have very good live ops, meaning like recurring content that keeps them spending because our LTVs can reach thousands of dollars. Pretty much we don't care about some, subscription is just some kind of afterthought somewhere there. You have gotcha systems, usually boxes that can drive, like, for instance, my favorite game, which I'm playing yesterday, 1,500,000 a day spike on the new gotcha just because of that out of just like few, few thousands of users. So that's there. [00:42:02] S0: I think that's one major difference is that in the apps industry, we don't have whales. So if we have the, you you have the higher end, you have like a $40 subscription. [00:42:13] S1: My question will be not if you have whales, but like do you even have the depth of the economy for the whale to kind of manifest itself? [00:42:23] S0: We don't have the options for it. Really, we don't have the pricing and the monetization. We have one subscription No. On [00:42:29] S1: You take something like, I don't know, Clash of Clans, the economy is something like 100 ks plus, and you're still not at top level still. And you spend already 100 ks thousand dollars. [00:42:39] S0: That's insane. Yeah, that's more rewarding.