01:04:17 · John Coogan, Alex Spiro, Jordi Hays
[01:04:17] S1: Yeah. [01:04:18] S2: And they happen in private or they happen outside of the the public sphere. When these kind of folks go through this, it impacts every element of their business lives, their employees Yeah. Their legacies and beyond. Yeah. And so you just have to be cognizant of that and you have to paint a picture that takes into account those things and thinks again in sort of three-dimensional and in chapters that would go forward. So I will prep them for speeches and earnings calls and if they have to go in front of Congress or anywhere else in order to sort of assess all of the different business elements, everything going on with them, the case and try to marry them all together to tell a coherent story. [01:05:00] S1: Do you do you have a team that can prep people for going to congress? It feels like [01:05:05] S0: there's gonna be a lot of... [01:05:06] S1: There's gonna be a lot of for that. I mean, you know, with the with the election results, it feels like we've been overdue for the AI safety debate to make its way into congressional hearings and it feels like there's gonna be people on Capitol Hill soon. [01:05:18] S2: There will... There certainly will be. You know, and I've represented people in front of congress many times before and I have no doubt that'll happen again. In fact, it'd shock me if it doesn't. But that's part of our system. I've always been a bigger fan of the jury trial system than the political theater system. [01:05:39] S0: Sure. [01:05:39] S2: But sometimes I have to go there too. Yeah. If I have to go, I will go.
01:05:39 · Alex Spiro, John Coogan, Jordi Hays
[01:05:39] S2: But sometimes I have to go there too. Yeah. If I have to go, I will go. [01:05:44] S1: Yeah. There there there's a scene in the the new Facebook movie, the the social reckoning where Mark Zuckerberg is... The character Mark Zuckerberg is like prepping for a hearing and it it it it... The implication is that they've created like a one to one set of the... Where he will be deposed. Do you think that that's useful or do think you're gonna over prepare? [01:06:08] S2: I've never created like a a complete replica of... It's like [01:06:13] S1: you almost named it for you level. Like that's basically what they're implying is that they're doing like the rehearsal. [01:06:18] S2: You know, I flew up to Tyler Perry Studios to see it in Atlanta and Tyler has a complete replica of the White House. Not... Maybe not a complete but but... [01:06:26] S0: Oh, yeah. I think we've talked [01:06:27] S2: about this. Yeah. Yeah. You can practice in the West Wing if you want to like be president. [01:06:33] S1: Okay. [01:06:33] S2: We could we could do a scene like that. But of course, you know, a good cross examiner is gonna gonna poke at that and gonna say you were so nervous that you had to create this theatrical because you were worried about coming here and facing me. [01:06:47] S1: And a [01:06:48] S2: lot of a lot of pain could be made of that. So I don't know that that's that's necessary. I think the most important thing is to know the facts Yeah. Tell the truth [01:06:56] S1: Yeah. [01:06:56] S2: And you know, tell it the right way. Drew?
01:06:56 · Alex Spiro, Jordi Hays, John Coogan, Apoorva Mehta
[01:06:56] S2: And you know, tell it the right way. Drew? [01:07:00] S0: From what I know, there's other law firms that that jump at the opportunity to go up against you because it's... It would be like a badge of honor, even if they're... Even if they know they're gonna get destroyed. Talk about talk about the sort of, not specific to you, but just like general industry dynamics where like The brand. A certain, you know, lawyer will develop a brand that that like is almost like a magnet for other lawyers to try to test themselves against. [01:07:30] S2: No. There's... Listen. I still save emails from cases where someone will decide I'm interested in their unsolicited advice and they will send me an email saying, know, listen. I'm a professor, I'm a you know, I'm a trial lawyer your father's age and just so know this case is unwinnable or you shouldn't be going to trial or whatever. And I still have them from various trials that they were... And they were wrong and [01:07:55] S1: Yeah. [01:07:55] S2: We won. Yeah. And I've created a cottage industry of people that used to work for me or been up against me where I'm told because you know [01:08:03] S3: a lot... It's a lot [01:08:04] S2: of my friends sort of are one degree that are then hiring people because of conflicts and whatnot, And they're like hiring people that used to work for me like they like as if they know, you know, how I take my coffee and how I prepare for trial or something. So you know, I'm aware of this Mhmm. Industry, you know, noise, but it just it it just makes it more exciting and more arena based.
01:08:04 · Alex Spiro, Jordi Hays, Apoorva Mehta, John Coogan
[01:08:04] S2: of my friends sort of are one degree that are then hiring people because of conflicts and whatnot, And they're like hiring people that used to work for me like they like as if they know, you know, how I take my coffee and how I prepare for trial or something. So you know, I'm aware of this Mhmm. Industry, you know, noise, but it just it it just makes it more exciting and more arena based. [01:08:28] S0: Yeah. Well, it's funny because like this happens with athletes. Right? [01:08:30] S2: Somebody has to win. [01:08:31] S0: Like with with athletes, you can literally watch the last 100, 200, 300 games a player has played. Right? [01:08:39] S3: Mhmm. [01:08:40] S0: And it's probably good to be prepared, but it doesn't mean that when you step into the arena that it's gonna go well for you. Right? Like, I could... There's a lot of tennis players that I could watch and I'm gonna have a very tough time against them Yeah. No [01:08:52] S1: matter How much game film you've been. [01:08:53] S0: What what advice do you give to lawyers at the firm that are early in their careers that want... That are thinking about how to build their own brands and for better or worse, like Aura. Right? Because, you know, it doesn't really make sense for somebody to just try to be like a mini version of you or a mini version of of John or or whoever it is. Or or is that... Or is is it flipped and you should just try to be exactly like you?
01:08:53 · Jordi Hays, Alex Spiro, Derek Blasberg
[01:08:53] S0: What what advice do you give to lawyers at the firm that are early in their careers that want... That are thinking about how to build their own brands and for better or worse, like Aura. Right? Because, you know, it doesn't really make sense for somebody to just try to be like a mini version of you or a mini version of of John or or whoever it is. Or or is that... Or is is it flipped and you should just try to be exactly like you? [01:09:20] S2: No. Don't don't do that. Don't do that. No. I tell them be yourself. You know, it's it's it's a sort of sounds like a cliche, but it's true. You know, when somebody is intimidating and can act a certain way and bark, it works for them if they are in fact intimidating. If you're not intimidating, start acting like that. You look you look like you're trying to do something you're not. You look at a character. And and listen, there are many ways to be effective. There are quiet, soft spoken, methodical trial lawyers. It doesn't have to be, you know, the barbarian at the gate. And then if you are true to yourself, if you stay in that character and you win cases Mhmm. That's a good way to develop a reputation. [01:10:00] S4: Mhmm. Right?
01:10:00 · Derek Blasberg, Alex Spiro, Jordi Hays, John Coogan
[01:10:00] S4: Mhmm. Right? [01:10:01] S2: I mean it it's it's really not a complicated formula. When I left being a prosecutor, these these... I I mean I always have to tell these stories, there was one guy who came and he's like, well I need to see your business plan. And I and I don't have a business. I told him. I said, I'm just gonna just be myself and I'm gonna win cases. That's that's the plan. I mean, there's no... That's the plan. [01:10:19] S0: Mhmm. So, yeah. Best way to build a personal brand is to be really great at your craft and win a lot. Don't worry about anything Well, [01:10:28] S2: what I was gonna say before and I'll I'll say it here, which is it's a unique profession when there is a winner and a loser of each battle. Mhmm. You know, and and that's... That allows the, you know, [01:10:38] S1: But what about... [01:10:39] S2: That allows people... [01:10:40] S1: What about like so many of cases they just get settled and both sides can kind of claim victory or there's fear of victories... [01:10:48] S0: Feel like they lost. [01:10:50] S1: Or both sides really lost like how often do you actually feel like you got the full victory? [01:10:56] S2: If I'm going all the way, I think I have to go all the way for [01:10:59] S1: a Yeah. Right? [01:11:01] S2: And if I don't think that I'm... You know, obviously, wouldn't settle at the point that I'm settling at or or resolve the thing at the point of resolving it at if I don't think it's the the right risk adjusted deal. [01:11:11] S1: Yeah.