00:53:32 · John Coogan, Apoorva Mehta
[00:53:32] S1: Rock bottom. [00:53:33] S3: You know, for for the margin that we were spending on it or something like that. So I do think this is going to be something that we're going to see over the next few years. That gets solved. But so far, it's far more interesting in the enterprise setting. [00:53:48] S1: Yeah. Yep. How are you thinking about agentic trading AI hedge fund activity spreading among other institutions that have frontier model capabilities? Like Google for a long time, I mean, they're spending a lot of cash but they've had a huge balance sheet And there's a pretty small treasury team, I believe, that moved that money around. They've always had the opportunity to do something more aggressive or differentiated with that. Do you think that that will take off broadly? Is this gonna be a new trend? Or would they partner with a fund on something? Do you think that that plays out as the capability becomes more diffused? [00:54:26] S3: Yeah. I mean, you know, so this is what's new. Right? This is what's new about, you know, AI based trading. [00:54:36] S1: Mhmm. [00:54:36] S3: Right? The reality is that, like, you know, have people been using machine learning models you know, algorithms to trade before? Yes. Right? Like that's not new, right? There's like, you know, Renaissance exists, for example, right? Like, you know, but the the you know, historically, the primary way they've been doing that is, you know, more what's called stat arb. [00:55:02] S1: Mhmm.
00:55:02 · John Coogan, Apoorva Mehta
[00:55:02] S1: Mhmm. [00:55:02] S3: Right? This is more, you know, understanding, you know, statistical, you know Patterns. Patterns, right? And, you know, basically making a call based on those patterns to say, hey, you know, these patterns are going to repeat in somewhere or not, right? And that's primarily the way ML and AI has been, you know, used. But for the first time, you can have, you know, reasoning, right? Like, know, what Warren Buffett would do, right? When they're analyzing a company, they're saying, hey, what are the moats? Right? How strong are these moats? Like, how like Mhmm. How durable is this growth, etcetera, etcetera. Like, these are very complex questions that are not, you know you know, you know, they're not necessarily, you know, stat arb. They're much more fundamental, you know, research, right? And and that's what AI trading and and, you know, AI agentic, you know, you know, capital allocation allows for. Yeah. And and so now, your question is, okay, well, is Google going to do it? I'm not sure. Uh-huh. These things are still exceptionally hard to build. Mhmm. And whatever you think is simple, right, chances are those things just get priced in and that that alpha just decays very fast.
00:56:22 · Jordi Hays, Apoorva Mehta
[00:56:22] S0: Yeah. So so are you thinking about hardware at abundance? Because I imagine you'll see the same... Like, if you're now introducing, like, reasoning into this sort of algorithmic trading, you might see the same sort of arms race that that we saw in sort of traditional high frequency trading playing out with this sort of new iteration as in like, if I can basically... If I if I can get tokens like faster and like something happens in the market and my... And I just have faster chip, I can probably get a better entry or exit or or whatever. And so do you think that's something that, like, you're gonna need to have, like, compute on prem? Or is that, like, kind of would be an adjacent strategy? [00:57:07] S3: Yeah. So there's several different strategies, you know, to... There are actually probably like several 100 different strategies here to to to play. And now, you know, maybe at at a high level, right, when I was leaving Instacart, there's sort of, you know, two things that I wanted to do, you know, in my next company. Number one, I wanted to be... To have the potential to be a trillion dollar company. And, you know, I mean, obviously, it's been inspiring to see what anthropical is doing. Five... Sound effect for [00:57:40] S0: Sorry. The trillion dollar
00:57:40 · Jordi Hays, Apoorva Mehta
[00:57:40] S0: Sorry. The trillion dollar [00:57:42] S3: That's right. I mean, I love that. I love that sound effect. You know, five years... Five, six years, you know, hopefully, multi trillion dollar company, right? It's incredible. Incredible, right? So that was number one. Number two is it had to be beneficial to humanity, you know? Just like... I just care about that and just like something that I wanted to have happen in my next company. And with abundance, believe that, you know, I found that. But I guess like, probably, you know, what's even the coolest part is that... Is how fun it is, And now, we've thought a lot about hardware like you brought up. But I would say, you know, for us, I think we have other ways we build advantages. And we certainly do capital allocation in the public market but, you know, we also do that in, you know, other places where we believe we have, you know, much larger returns, much more durable returns, and, you know, and and much more impactful returns as well. And so, you [00:58:57] S0: I gonna say I was gonna say you're like, I wanted to do something that was just like good for the world and then you're launching a hedge fund, is like a contrarian, maybe contrarian, but it sounds like you're allocating places that you'll probably be able to talk more about in let's say like a couple years once you once you get a little more established. [00:59:15] S3: You don't think hedge funds are doing great... [00:59:18] S0: I do. I mean, we've been we've been some of the strongest defenders of private equity broadly.
00:59:18 · Jordi Hays, John Coogan, Apoorva Mehta, Alex Spiro
[00:59:18] S0: I do. I mean, we've been we've been some of the strongest defenders of private equity broadly. [00:59:25] S1: We need accurate prices in markets. Yes. Obviously. [00:59:28] S3: Yeah. Look, I agree. I think that there is certainly some, you know, efficiency and liquidity that you know, hedge funds add. But, you know, but, yes, I think you're right. Like, you know, we do think that capital allocation has, you know, a bigger part to play than just adding liquidity the market. And and that, I think, is just, you know... You know what's... So the coolest thing about AI is these new... These lines of how we thought about these businesses are going to completely change. [01:00:05] S1: Mhmm. [01:00:05] S3: Right? Like, you know, you you would see like, okay, like, this is a SaaS company that's just going do SaaS, SaaS, SaaS, SaaS. Right? Like, now, as we're thinking about outcomes, we're thinking about, you know, you know, new type of holding companies, etcetera. So I just think that, you know, the the lines are being redrawn with AI and and, you know, we we hope to to do that in in our own sector. [01:00:30] S0: I love it. Very cool. Congratulations. You certainly did it with with with Instacart in a Sit that goal. In a different way. Congratulations to the to the whole team. It's really a tremendous story and, yeah, very, very happy Overnight for your guys' outcome. [01:00:47] S1: A classic overnight success. We'd love [01:00:49] S2: to see... [01:00:49] S0: Come back on as you can as you can talk more about about what you're doing as well. Yeah. It's very cool.
01:00:49 · Jordi Hays, Apoorva Mehta, John Coogan, Alex Spiro, Derek Blasberg
[01:00:49] S0: Come back on as you can as you can talk more about about what you're doing as well. Yeah. It's very cool. [01:00:53] S3: Definitely. Awesome, guys. Thank you.... [01:00:55] S1: Dude. Have a good day. Cheers. Goodbye. Let me tell you about public. Invest across all asset classes. Automate anything with AI agents. Run trading strategies, risk management, money movements, and monitor markets with AI agents for... [01:01:06] S0: Was who you're trading against [01:01:08] S1: Yeah. [01:01:08] S0: Too. Take them [01:01:11] S1: to the cleaners or play it safe. Do whatever you want. We have Alex Spiro from Quinn Emanuel coming on the show. Welcome to the show, Alex. How are you doing? [01:01:22] S2: Good, man. How are you? [01:01:23] S0: What's Long going [01:01:24] S1: overdue. Sorry for taking so long to make this happen. [01:01:29] S0: Are these... What's behind you? Are these the ghosts of your enemies? [01:01:33] S2: Nobody... Exactly. These are these are people that used to exist. [01:01:37] S1: Yeah. They're gone. [01:01:41] S0: Great to have you on the show. We're big Quinn Emanuel fans. Huge. Love hanging out with John. Yeah. We we'd have him on every day if we could. Yeah. I think I think he enjoys it too. [01:01:50] S4: He needs [01:01:51] S2: somewhere to go, so you guys should [01:01:53] S0: be there. Yeah. We keep him we keep him busy. Yeah. [01:01:56] S1: We're we're close by here. Pasadena is just thirty minutes away or something. So he can just he can [01:02:00] S2: Exactly just hop