Lenny's Podcast: Product | Career | Growth
00:42:13 · Jessica Fain
[00:42:13] S0: Yeah. And a great question to ask in that scenario is how strongly do you feel about this? So if you hear something that they say really strongly, or how urgent do you think that is? Or, "Hey, here's what the team is working on now. Do you think that that trumps these priorities?" And if they say," Yes, listen, do the thing that they say trumps it. "It's not about jumping on every request or taking every piece of feedback, it's about contextualizing it and why they believe that, what they think the urgency is, and then actually responding to that. So more often than not, they'll say," I wonder if we could do this kind of study. "And people will go and say, "Oh my gosh, we have to go run that study right now. We have to deprioritize everything else." But if you say to them, "Hey, that's a really cool idea. I like that. Do you think that that's more important than these three other studies or three other projects that we're working on now?" And they'll say, "Oh no, no, no. That's a random idea. Put it on the backlog." I think that execs are moving so quickly that they won't always give you that context of urgency and so you have to ask for it. This is something I've been working on getting better at as a leader. This is just an idea, this is a mandate, this is something I want to see, but it's hard. Sometimes it's hard to remember to do that because your brain is spinning with ideas.
00:43:33 · Lenny Rachitsky, Jessica Fain
[00:43:33] S1: This comes back to your point about getting into the mind of the person in the meeting, the leader. They're running around all day. I think you call it a strobe. You're just like, bam, another meeting next meeting, next meeting, next meeting without a lot of context and they just say things, and sometimes it's important to them, sometimes not, which comes back to one of your tips at the beginning of this chat is spend 30 to 60 seconds at the beginning just giving them a little context on what the heck. What would you recommend in that 30, 60 seconds? What are some key bullet points of what you want to communicate? [00:44:02] S0: Yeah. In the 30 seconds, I would say, we're here to discuss X, Y, Z. Last time we met, we left it off here. The goals of today's meetings are ZYX. Here's how we're going to run this meeting. And then stop talking Because the moment you go off over 60 seconds, you've lost them. And oh, I think the other really important thing I would add there is to say, was there anything else you were hoping to cover today? [00:44:27] S1: That was awesome. I love this advice. I'm excited to tweet this out just to summarize these bullet points you just shared. That is so cool. I love that. And to your point, if 60 seconds flies by, you may think you're talking for 60 seconds. It often ends up being five minutes. So your advice of keep it under 60 seconds, just try to actually do that.
00:44:46 · Jessica Fain
[00:44:46] S0: Try to actually do that. I think the other thing here is this often depends on what kind of meeting, what you're actually doing. In our culture, we do a lot of silent read of docs or watching a loom in the meeting, and then coming back for conversation. I think one of the things that I've seen be really effective in coming back for that conversation is oftentimes a leader will smatter your doc with 100 comments and you're like, "Oh my gosh, what is actually important here?" So what I often do is I have a section at the top to say themes for discussion. I bubble up some of the biggest and most controversial pieces that can only be discussed live and anything they've said that they're just curious about. What's the timeframe for this? What's the staffing need for why? I can answer offline. I can answer in a follow-up. What I can't get again is the time for discussion with that group. "And the safer that they feel in that discussion and the more that they think that you've understood what is the most spicy or controversial, that's where you get to the good stuff and you really get their insight and input. So I put a section at the top and say topics for discussion that I'm reading through the comments. Rachel, was that right? Did I get your thoughts right? Anything you would add to this? And then we can talk about the really good stuff that gets us to a better outcome.
00:46:07 · Lenny Rachitsky
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00:47:52 · Jessica Fain, Lenny Rachitsky
[00:47:52] S0: It's literally your job. I think the way that product management has worked for a long time is you basically get funding for your ideas in the... You basically get funding for your ideas in the form of engineering, design, cross-functional resourcing. That is, you should consider that VC money that's been invested in you, and your CFO, your CPO, your CEO is expecting a return. And so what is the way that you are showing that you are building great products that honors that investment in you? And sure, you can go into a startup and be the sole decision maker, and that is a very, very valid way to work. But if you work with other people, having them excited, interested, passionate, bought in to what you're doing, will make everything easier. It is also the job, right? You also have to. But I think the thing I want people to take away is that it's really the way to build well. When people are motivated, when they feel purpose, when they feel like this is really something that I believe in, they work harder, they support you more, they talk about you in rooms that you're not in. And so it's just actually the way you deliver great results. [00:49:15] S1: I think that's such an important framing. Okay. What other tactics, what other techniques work in helping leaders get influenced? [00:49:24] S0: Yeah. Get influenced. I love that. I love that. [00:49:27] S1: Be influenced.
00:49:27 · Lenny Rachitsky, Jessica Fain
[00:49:27] S1: Be influenced. [00:49:29] S0: Yeah. We should have a stamp, like influenced, at the end. So I think one of the things that people misunderstand is the constraints that they are bound by versus their leadership. Execs are not ... They don't have the same boundaries of budget and headcount and timeline that you feel. They can move people around in the organization. They can ask for more resourcing. They can get creative. They can elevate projects, kill projects. And so you have to come to them with that mindset of, "Hey, with today's resourcing, with this many engineers or this kind of tooling or this kind of investment, here's what I can get. But I'm thinking of the 10X case. I'm thinking of the accelerated case. And if that's what you want, and if that's aligned with your incentives, here's what I need to be successful." And so I think that people think, "Okay, well, I've got my pizza team and I've got my four engineers and what you're asking is not possible." Well, if it's not possible, tell them why not. Come back and say, "The thing that you're asking for, I'm super stoked about that. I need eight more people. I need you twice a week for an hour. I need much closer alignment with our marketing team, and I'm not sure how to get that." You have to think about what are the constraints that hold you back that they can actually help you a lot with. And people miss out on this all the time, of not asking for what they need to be successful, especially when the ask from the executive seems unreasonable.