Invest Like the Best with Patrick O'Shaughnessy
· Patrick O'Shaughnessy, Wolfgang Hammer
[00:00:00] S0: What about inner conflict, like a character who wants two opposing things? [00:00:00] S1: That's the definition of story. This is a Faulkner quote, but great conflict is the heart in conflict with itself. That's a great story. So you want two conflicting things at the same time. You're very invested in your fear. You create situations in the original state where this investment in your fear pays off. And at the same time, there's a part of you, mostly subconscious but can be conscious, that has a dream of greatness. And those are absolutely in conflict because the fear wants to dominate and the greatness wants to come out and do its thing. And it's through the story itself that this gets worked out. And I always think this: when someone takes on the position of a leader and how relieved everyone else is not to have to do that, people love to just disappear and amass and be relieved of the burden of individuality. But this is possible because someone has a will to power and steps up and says, I will do it. [00:00:00] S0: Why do you think that is? Should we all be leaders in some way?
· Patrick O'Shaughnessy, Wolfgang Hammer
[00:00:00] S0: Why do you think that is? Should we all be leaders in some way? [00:00:00] S1: In some way, I think. Emphasis on "in some way." I think we have a very narrow definition of leaders: business or political leader, and that's sort of the end of it. I think actually, if you invert that and you just simply say you have a predicate understanding of yourself at that point in time based on reflection, and you act according to this predicate understanding as best as you can at that point in time, you are already a leader simply because you're guided by a philosophical worldview that feels absolutely true to you at that moment. [00:00:00] S0: Back to this exercise of a version of a story that's so big it terrifies you. It sounds like the model is: raw potential is so big, but the mind can't figure it out. And so the process is figuring out how to get something that's subconscious out, let it free. How does one do that?
· Patrick O'Shaughnessy, Wolfgang Hammer
[00:00:00] S0: Back to this exercise of a version of a story that's so big it terrifies you. It sounds like the model is: raw potential is so big, but the mind can't figure it out. And so the process is figuring out how to get something that's subconscious out, let it free. How does one do that? [00:00:00] S1: Character in action, through action. This is the great discovery of the pragmatists, which I think is a huge reason for why the American experiment has been so successful, is that people do a lot of doing happening. You cannot have a good narrative without an active character. There's no one who sits around and thinks their way through problems. I think it's a combination of having a dominant worldview to fight against, of having a personal worldview to espouse, and a willingness to, through action—and I think also through quiet reflection—that those voices that perhaps are in the subconscious safely come to the surface and see where it goes without having a specific outcome in mind over time. Narrative is fear made conscious and conquered through action. [00:00:00] S0: If I go back to the beginning and take everything we've talked about and ask you to give a sort of grand unified theory of everything that you've been searching for, what's your best attempt at that?
· Patrick O'Shaughnessy, Wolfgang Hammer
[00:00:00] S0: If I go back to the beginning and take everything we've talked about and ask you to give a sort of grand unified theory of everything that you've been searching for, what's your best attempt at that? [00:00:00] S1: I think it's a technology that is able to, through consilience, so through pulling from all strands of knowledge, to communicate an ultimate concern, so an absolute truth in the story universe, in such a way that the individual can understand it on an emotional, personal level, which is kind of also what philosophy has been trying to do, and it's also what religion has been trying to do. So in that sense, it's a technology layer of arranging situations and character in such a way that enables this transmission. So in that sense, storytelling is soteriological and has as its concern a form of salvation—not the form of salvation, a form of salvation. Maybe the answer to the question, am I worthy of love? The answer is yes, very often comes back to that on the emotional level. And then very often: is it safe to die? And the answer is, in most cases, yes. [00:00:00] S0: Why is the answer to both yes? [00:00:00] S1: Because it's better than the alternative. [00:00:00] S0: You mentioned a guy named Don Rosenthal to me one time. [00:00:00] S1: Yes. [00:00:00] S0: What did he teach you, and how did he teach it to you? [00:00:00] S1: That it's safe to die and that you're worthy of love. [00:00:00] S0: How did he teach it to you?
· Patrick O'Shaughnessy, Wolfgang Hammer
[00:00:00] S0: How did he teach it to you? [00:00:00] S1: By saying that in the end, every story is a metaphor. So you want to couch all these absolute truths revealed in a subjective way, in metaphors that don't spell it out directly, but convey their meaning through something that's close, but not the thing itself. He had this wonderful way of repeating back to you the absurdity of your beliefs and laughing at them. So you would be laughing at these absurd constructs, at these stories that you've come up with and believe to be fundamentally true, mainly because you hadn't done the work of just saying, well, what do you really believe? Once you do that, it's your ultimate concern and it's your bedrock. And you can refer back to that at any given time, usually every five minutes, when you have to communicate and make a decision of some kind, and it gives you confidence. And there is a guy that I really like, this guy John O'Donohue, talks a lot about Meister Eckhart, who had this concept of Gelassenheit, which is the letting go of all intent, simply experience the divine nature that's already in you by the pure fact that you're alive. And once you realize that, all else is an afterthought. And I think that's probably what Don Rosenthal communicated to me in a visceral way. [00:00:00] S0: I'm going to ask my traditional closing question. What is the kindest thing that anyone's ever done for you? [00:00:00] S1: I thought about this. There's so many people that I owe a lot to, but I know that it's my wife who married me. I think that probably is the kindest thing.
· Wolfgang Hammer, Patrick O'Shaughnessy
[00:00:00] S1: I thought about this. There's so many people that I owe a lot to, but I know that it's my wife who married me. I think that probably is the kindest thing. [00:00:00] S0: Simple as that. Yeah, Wolfgang, I've counted on you for so many episodes of trying to figure things out, and you've pointed out several times today that each version of this exercise is deeply personal and you can't abstract it into some perfect formula to have everyone find their way. But I hope we've done a decent job of some breadcrumbs that people can follow in pursuit of their own most interesting version of their story. Thank you so much for doing this with me. Thank you for your time. [00:00:00] S1: Thank you.