Invest Like the Best with Patrick O'Shaughnessy
· Shyam Sankar
[00:00:00] S1: Celebrating the heretics, celebrating the successes, creating venues where everyone has some ability to revolt. Every employee's first AMA with me, I end it by telling them to tell me to fuck off to my face. It's very uncomfortable for them, actually. They're almost not sure if I'm entrapping them into something that's gonna get them in trouble. But how can you say you have a flat culture if you can't tell the boss to fuck off? It's a small gesture, but it's trying to set the conditions and understand like, hey, we are a company that's committed to taking the very best idea regardless of where it comes from, and then putting all of our wood behind those arrows. And most of those ideas are usually some variants from what we're currently doing, otherwise it'd already be the current best idea. You gotta be careful how much you institutionalize, but we've institutionalized – minimally two times a year, we have these weeks of revolt where people are allowed to go build whatever they want. We're almost, I like want the people to have a chip on their shoulder. The whole point is to prove that we've been fucking up and doing it wrong, and inspire us with the thing that you've built. And then if you have a culture that is just profoundly truth-seeking, and the truth is so charismatic that now that I've seen it, I can't unsee it. This is obviously the right answer, let's go. It's not as hard as it may sound to move and pivot on these things.
· Patrick O'Shaughnessy
[00:00:00] S0: The AI time is so remarkable. We all have to deal with this new thing at the same time. Probably like any crisis, there's both opportunity and danger bundled in the coming of AI for Palantir 2. How do you receive this new technology and make sure that you get better because of it and don't get disrupted because of it? You were a disruptor with this enterprise ontology concept killing the old rigid database systems. You had an innovation. Now, if I wanted to create a Palantir competitor, it would be much easier just by virtue of the technology that's available.
· Shyam Sankar
[00:00:00] S1: The only way you can do that is by disrupting yourself. To the point of institutionalizing rebellion and holding that up, it is the perpetual motor of self-disruption. I think about it as the most valuable thing is not to defend a moat or something, but it's to go charge after the new opportunity. One of the things I think is unique about AI is how much it plays to the beginner's mind. Obviously, the first adopters of AI for us were the youngest hires. To the point of generate momentum, I didn't really bother with the people who were cynical or indismissive of it. I let the young people generate just overwhelming productivity that almost in some sense humiliated or inspired other people to get on board. And there's a similar phenomenon. There was like a weird, almost like out-of-body experience for someone who's been there 20 years or someone who had been in Palantir three years is like, you know what? The best people are doing this are really the young people, by which he meant people who'd been there three months. And that recognition of – so here we have someone who's not a gatekeeper. He's actually trying to find the insurgents and empower them and place them in places where they can go forth and do badass shit. And we can all learn together by doing that. It's been actually really fun with the rate of transformation for AI and what it's really enabled to be possible.
· Patrick O'Shaughnessy
[00:00:00] S0: Everyone's trying to answer this question of, okay, we have AI. Where's the value going to get captured in the whole stack or chain or however you want to think about it? What's your answer to that question?
· Shyam Sankar
[00:00:00] S1: We think that the value is going to accrue at the chips layer and at the ontology layer. If you squint at the stack, I'll skip over some parts of this, but you have chips, you have the model providers, you have AI infrastructure, which is where we think the ontology sits, and then you have AI applications. And what you observe out there is the model companies have to run up the stack away from just providing a pure model, because the model is commoditized. It's really everything they build around the model, that is a solution that they're going to try to build value off of. When you look at the AI pure play applications, they're running down. As they start to scale their businesses, have to deal with more customers, more of their customers' data, they're reinventing the AI infrastructure, essentially AIP, from first principles, recognizing why they need it. Now, of course, through divine intervention. We've built this platform over the last 20 years, and you can say arguably the meat of it since 2015 with Foundry leading to AIP. That gives us a huge head start on these things. And even if these models help you code faster, there's the code and there's the secrets that actually is behind why we built the code. So where are we going to be in two years? We're going to be two years after that. We feel like we're in a very great position there. And it's expressed by like the way we measure this is how quickly can I deliver value for my customers? How quickly can I deliver enterprise autonomy or fundamentally change my customers' businesses? And not only has that number been awesome – I'd say two years ago, we could do that inside of eight weeks. Now it feels like a week. That rate is compounding dramatically.
· Patrick O'Shaughnessy, Shyam Sankar
[00:00:00] S0: One thing I'm really fascinated about you is, for so long, you were sort of like an if you know, you know guy. Very much behind the scenes. If you asked around, the person, or one of the key people making this business work, the forward deployed thing, you know, lots of examples. And it seems like you've chosen to be a everybody knows guy. What is behind that choice? Why make that shift? [00:00:00] S1: I'd say I'm a bit reluctant about the shift, but I can't look my kids in the eye and not say that I'm ringing the bell that we're in an undeclared state of emergency. Really the first major public thing I put out there was the 18 theses, which is to say like, we're in emergency, we've lost deterrence. I've been doing this for roughly 19 years at that point. Here's my diagnostic of what's wrong. The shot clock is ticking. We've got to coalesce around this problem. Now, a note of profound optimism, I've seen more change in the Department of War in the last year than the prior 19 years. To the point of Americans do the right thing, having exhausted all the other options. We are definitely in the place where we are starting to do the right things. And the first derivative and even the second derivative is positive. Going faster and faster here. [00:00:00] S0: How would you sum up the 18 theses? I know we've talked about lots of component parts of it already. Is there anything from that – that was your first big public thing – that we haven't talked about, that you think is important?