Relentless
00:36:25 · Ty Morse, Sam Altman
[00:36:25] S0: to explain. Why did Microsoft give you the money? [00:36:30] S1: That, I think, is easier to explain, which is Google had DeepMind, and Microsoft did not have an AI bet. And, you know, big companies feel like they should have something in play in all of the major areas of technology. [00:36:41] S0: Was it kind of like they think it's going to be big but then underestimated how big it would be? I mean, I [00:36:46] S1: think it's been, like, great for them. I don't know if we added 1,000,000,000,000, $2,000,000,000,000, or whatever market cap to Microsoft, but I think it's been a lot. And I think they have gotten incredible technology and cloud growth and will continue to. So, yeah, I'm sure it's bigger than they thought it was going to be, but I think they made a good bet and have done super well with it. I'm very happy about that.
00:36:46 · Sam Altman, Ty Morse
[00:36:46] S1: think it's been, like, great for them. I don't know if we added 1,000,000,000,000, $2,000,000,000,000, or whatever market cap to Microsoft, but I think it's been a lot. And I think they have gotten incredible technology and cloud growth and will continue to. So, yeah, I'm sure it's bigger than they thought it was going to be, but I think they made a good bet and have done super well with it. I'm very happy about that. [00:37:05] S0: There's been different versions of OpenAI. The first one was the research lab. Next one was the product company, and you kind of said that, like, you bolted on the product company onto the research lab, which is the exact opposite of what most companies do. And now you're basically gonna be, like, a massive infrastructure company, and, like, almost all the value from OpenAI is just gonna come from this, like, low margin infrastructure. And then you also said that, basically, in order to transition into the next phase of this business, it's not necessarily something... The way that your brain works is naturally, like, designed to operate in, that kind of model. What do you have to change, and, like, what is that next phase of the business? [00:37:37] S1: I don't answer this because I don't... Like, I think this is now getting into, like, a Like a direction that we're not quite ready to talk about. But, I am very excited for the next phase, and I think I have figured out how to align something that I am very good at and very passionate about with what will be the next, like, 10 or 100 x of our growth.
00:37:37 · Sam Altman, Ty Morse
[00:37:37] S1: I don't answer this because I don't... Like, I think this is now getting into, like, a Like a direction that we're not quite ready to talk about. But, I am very excited for the next phase, and I think I have figured out how to align something that I am very good at and very passionate about with what will be the next, like, 10 or 100 x of our growth. [00:37:53] S0: So how did the transition of Sam, the research lab head, to Sam, the product company head, like, was that? What were the biggest transitions for you [00:38:02] S1: on that? I mean, the whole thing was just extremely different. Like, it has felt like two almost completely unrelated jobs. And it's not quite to say, like, I did one and now I do the other because I also still am responsible for the research lab. But they are almost separate things. And definitely running the research lab did not prepare me for running the product company in really any way. Did the YC experience prepare you? More. Like, I had watched a lot of people have to scale big companies. [00:38:37] S0: Was it fun to kind of, like, finally get in the driver's seat?
00:38:40 · Sam Altman
[00:38:40] S1: No. No. The fifth day after ChatGPT launch was the day we crossed a million users. And I had, like, watched it go up the first day and then come down in the afternoon and then go up the second day to a higher peak and then come down, go up the third day to a higher peak and then come down. And each of these days, the researchers were like, oh, that was some crazy flash in the pan PR thing. This is, like, over, and, you know, that's not gonna happen. And I had seen enough at YC that I knew that when something was growing like that completely organically, it... This had all of the spectral signature to me of something that is, like, was gonna happen. And then on the fifth day, it crossed a million users, and I came home. And that was when it really hit me that, like, we were about to become a company, and it was gonna go very fast, and it was gonna be a crazy... Like, a... Like, we were just gonna turn into, like, a big company real quick. And I had watched what these founders went through. And I came home, and Ollie was like, Oh, I saw that you crossed a million years, so congratulations. I was like, You have no idea how bad this is. You have no idea what's about to happen. It's not just bad for me, it's bad for you too. Like, we have this nice, quiet life, you know, it's really wonderful. It's about to, like, kind of go through a canon. And that is what happened. But it was like a very abrupt transition. I knew it was going come, and I had watched other people go through it. And I knew that it was, like, not a pleasant experience. But I was like, well, we're being shot at the cannon. Here we go.
00:40:14 · Ty Morse, Sam Altman
[00:40:14] S0: Were you, like, subconsciously just, like, preparing yourself for years? If you know that this is eventually going to happen and the intelligence is gonna get good enough, where, like, there will be a magical product. [00:40:25] S1: My take on it is that I intellectually knew it was going to happen at some point. I had no idea when. Didn't know that was going to be the moment, of course. But that I had decided to pretend to myself. And I had successfully deluded myself into a sort of acting like it wasn't going to happen. Truly running the research lab was the coolest, most fun, most amazing job and lifestyle setup I could possibly have imagined. How so? I mean, you were like... It's not stressful at all. It was intellectually incredibly satisfying. It was the smartest group of people with probably the most important work that has happened in the last century, maybe longer. I don't know. And I had this front row seat. And like, that was a once in many generations moment. It was unbelievable. It was the coolest thing. [00:41:21] S0: Are you guys experiencing that same kind of growth? You know, I keep on seeing Thibault post on Twitter that basically, here's another reset. Here's another reset. Are you seeing that same, like, chat experience again? Totally.
00:41:21 · Ty Morse, Sam Altman
[00:41:21] S0: Are you guys experiencing that same kind of growth? You know, I keep on seeing Thibault post on Twitter that basically, here's another reset. Here's another reset. Are you seeing that same, like, chat experience again? Totally. [00:41:37] S1: I think there have been two giant form factors and associated growth so far. There was this sort of chatbots and then the coding agents, and the coding agents are just going totally nuts. There will be a third one soon, I think, which will be this idea of this sort of persistent agents, chiefs of staffs, coworkers, colleagues, whatever we call them. And that'll... And, you know, I think that'll come pretty soon. So we're gonna go through, like, the third of these waves pretty fast. [00:42:03] S0: So a long time ago, apparently in August last year, I saw you tweet something, and I thought to myself, this is not gonna help the reputation. Let's see. Why? Why did you do that? [00:42:20] S1: Well, first of all, I love that scene from the movie. Like, the Star is coming out of hyperspace, and there's this dramatic music, and it's like a great it's like a great scene. I thought it was a funny... Like, I was it was like, you know, I was scrolling Twitter. I think it was late at night. I don't really remember. [00:42:37] S0: This is where the conspiracy theories happen. Like, the... You're you're, like... You're feeding the fire here. [00:42:44] S1: I just thought it was... It amused me at the time. There was, like... It was... I don't know. It was not a great tweet, to be honest No. To be clear.