Relentless
00:33:15 · Sam Altman, Ty Morse
[00:33:15] S1: There's, like, no one board game where I'd like, I wanna play that, like, again and again. I don't have, like, a... Like, I'm not, like, someone who's like, Catan the best board game of all time or whatever. But they're all fun, and they're fun because they're, like, new and you have to, like, figure out a new set of challenges and [00:33:28] S0: rules and everything else. When you're thinking about the business world, I think you build your company differently than almost anyone else is able to build companies, is willing to build companies. What allows you to do that? [00:33:40] S1: Actually, every big company is pretty different. I don't think this is a unique thing. Think just, like, if if you make a list of the 20 biggest tech companies or whatever, they're all, like, shockingly different from each other in terms of their strategy and how they operate and their culture. And I think we are quite different than everybody else, but that's not a deep insight. [00:34:00] S0: What do you think your, like, superpower is? [00:34:04] S1: I think we did a really good job of a principled conviction on something that no one else believed even though it was the obvious thing one should believe, and then putting together all of the pieces and the talent around that to sort of make it happen. [00:34:18] S0: What allowed you to kind of have that conviction that where other people just didn't? I've thought about this
00:34:18 · Ty Morse, Sam Altman
[00:34:18] S0: What allowed you to kind of have that conviction that where other people just didn't? I've thought about this [00:34:24] S1: a lot. I do not know. It seemed so clearly obvious to all of us that I was more worried that we were drinking our own Kool Aid than everybody else was wrong. But with the benefit of hindsight, we were clearly right, and I don't understand the, like, deep mental block and lack of conviction from everybody else. It's very strange. I I have I have [00:34:53] S0: spent a lot of time trying to understand this. Did you find any explanation in your, you know, man's search for
00:34:53 · Ty Morse, Sam Altman
[00:34:53] S0: spent a lot of time trying to understand this. Did you find any explanation in your, you know, man's search for [00:34:59] S1: why or no? I mean, there's all the obvious stuff about, like, groupthink and, like, the big transformations just don't come along that often and exponential curves don't stay powerful for so long... For so often. But, like, you know, maybe between 2016 and 2018, we had to get really lucky, it required, like, a lot of great belief. But then by 2019, certainly by 2020, we shouldn't have really gotten to exist. Google should have just run away with it. Yeah. I think Jeff Bezos called it, like, a business miracle that they built AWS and then didn't have any serious competition for, seven years. And I feel like OpenAI is, like, another business miracle. There's clearly something here about why big companies get sclerotic and set in their ways, and it helps them in a lot of ways too. But this is like... I mean, this is wonderful. I think it's great that the big companies don't stay the only dominant forces forever. That'd be really bad. But there's clearly something where these business miracles happen and they shouldn't. Is that right? Or should they? Well, I think it's great for the world that they do. But to go back and explain in 2019 why OpenAI was allowed by the giants with huge amounts of capital and talent and everything else to do what we've done, it's hard [00:36:25] S0: to explain. Why did Microsoft give you the money?
00:36:25 · Ty Morse, Sam Altman
[00:36:25] S0: to explain. Why did Microsoft give you the money? [00:36:30] S1: That, I think, is easier to explain, which is Google had DeepMind, and Microsoft did not have an AI bet. And, you know, big companies feel like they should have something in play in all of the major areas of technology. [00:36:41] S0: Was it kind of like they think it's going to be big but then underestimated how big it would be? I mean, I [00:36:46] S1: think it's been, like, great for them. I don't know if we added 1,000,000,000,000, $2,000,000,000,000, or whatever market cap to Microsoft, but I think it's been a lot. And I think they have gotten incredible technology and cloud growth and will continue to. So, yeah, I'm sure it's bigger than they thought it was going to be, but I think they made a good bet and have done super well with it. I'm very happy about that.
00:36:46 · Sam Altman, Ty Morse
[00:36:46] S1: think it's been, like, great for them. I don't know if we added 1,000,000,000,000, $2,000,000,000,000, or whatever market cap to Microsoft, but I think it's been a lot. And I think they have gotten incredible technology and cloud growth and will continue to. So, yeah, I'm sure it's bigger than they thought it was going to be, but I think they made a good bet and have done super well with it. I'm very happy about that. [00:37:05] S0: There's been different versions of OpenAI. The first one was the research lab. Next one was the product company, and you kind of said that, like, you bolted on the product company onto the research lab, which is the exact opposite of what most companies do. And now you're basically gonna be, like, a massive infrastructure company, and, like, almost all the value from OpenAI is just gonna come from this, like, low margin infrastructure. And then you also said that, basically, in order to transition into the next phase of this business, it's not necessarily something... The way that your brain works is naturally, like, designed to operate in, that kind of model. What do you have to change, and, like, what is that next phase of the business? [00:37:37] S1: I don't answer this because I don't... Like, I think this is now getting into, like, a Like a direction that we're not quite ready to talk about. But, I am very excited for the next phase, and I think I have figured out how to align something that I am very good at and very passionate about with what will be the next, like, 10 or 100 x of our growth.
00:37:37 · Sam Altman, Ty Morse
[00:37:37] S1: I don't answer this because I don't... Like, I think this is now getting into, like, a Like a direction that we're not quite ready to talk about. But, I am very excited for the next phase, and I think I have figured out how to align something that I am very good at and very passionate about with what will be the next, like, 10 or 100 x of our growth. [00:37:53] S0: So how did the transition of Sam, the research lab head, to Sam, the product company head, like, was that? What were the biggest transitions for you [00:38:02] S1: on that? I mean, the whole thing was just extremely different. Like, it has felt like two almost completely unrelated jobs. And it's not quite to say, like, I did one and now I do the other because I also still am responsible for the research lab. But they are almost separate things. And definitely running the research lab did not prepare me for running the product company in really any way. Did the YC experience prepare you? More. Like, I had watched a lot of people have to scale big companies. [00:38:37] S0: Was it fun to kind of, like, finally get in the driver's seat?