Relentless
00:24:38 · Ty Morse, Sam Altman
[00:24:38] S0: Or [00:24:39] S1: It was like world leaders were like, do we need to, like, take control and shut things down? Like, is this thing waking up and about? It was it was a weird time. And because it had all happened so fast, people had not had time to, like, wrap their head around and go through this process, whatever. So, you know, we were, like, getting all of this escalating stuff, and all these, like, world leaders were, will you come meet us? We're, like, you know, thinking about doing this and that. And I was like, I think if I or someone from the company, but at the time, company was not very big, so I was like, probably gonna have to be me, does not go, like, show up and talk to people. I'd like a sense it's about to go very badly. And I was thinking about doing, like, a bunch of short trips, but I hate long flights. I hate jet lag. I had the whole thing. So I was like, I'm just gonna, like, get this over with in a short period of time. Brian Chesky advised me to do it. He had done something for air... Similar for Airbnb, but he had done, like, eight cities or something. [00:25:32] S0: And you're like, fuck it. We ball. Let's just do 30. [00:25:34] S1: 20... I think we did 28 countries. Thirty five days. I, like, lived on an airplane. It was a very strange [00:25:42] S0: Did you go to bed? [00:25:43] S1: I had, like, a... Yeah. Slept an airplane. Comfortable, but, yeah, I go [00:25:47] S0: I fly Coach, so it's a little bit different.
00:25:47 · Ty Morse, Sam Altman
[00:25:47] S0: I fly Coach, so it's a little bit different. [00:25:50] S1: This is better than that. Right. This is a lot better than that. But, like, you know, it's like travel still sucks. Like, you can make it as comfortable as you want, and you still, miss your own bed and your own time zone and your office and whatever. [00:25:59] S0: One thing that I've learned is no matter how many people have, like, these cures for jet lag, they're all bullshit. Like, it just sucks. Your brain doesn't like it. [00:26:08] S1: I never... And because I went to so many places, I think my biggest time zone change was four hours the whole trip. And mostly, it was like a one hour at a time hop. So I wasn't that jet lagged. I was just, like, exhausted. And it was very strange. It was kind of cool to get to see the world so quickly because you really do get a sense for cultural differences that are very subtle when you go from place to place. But by the end of it, the last few days, I started it was one of these weird, half asleep, awake kind of somewhat dreams. But I started having this vision feeling of being in my childhood bed, Interesting. Which I never had before or since. But I would sort of like vaguely wake up and I would think I was in my childhood bed in my childhood room. And I was like, Okay, this is some like deep it's time to go home thing. [00:27:04] S0: Your, like, subconscious is fighting back [00:27:05] S1: or something? Something like that.
00:27:05 · Sam Altman, Ty Morse
[00:27:05] S1: or something? Something like that. [00:27:06] S0: Interesting. When you're in zombie mode and you're kind of, like, trying to function, I think, or goblin mode, whatever you prefer, how do you change? Like, what is different about you? How do you decide to keep on going? [00:27:19] S1: I definitely got to this point near the end where I was, like, hunting down the days till I could be home. I was just like, alright. Because each day was, like, it was, like, you know, fourteen hours of, like, nonstop. And I'm, like, not an extroverted person. I You was meeting, like, hundreds of people a day in some cases. And, like, tensions lowered by the end of it, but at the beginning, like, the world was, like, very nervous. And and then, like, you know, I think once... It just, like, it did calm down. I think one thing that helped is it was clear that, like, I knew when I was going to get home and I knew I was going have to do it again for a while. I've done smaller ones since. Probably do, like, something like that once or twice a year. But I was gonna say, like, a thing I learned is that I would much rather put a bunch of international travel together in, a seven or ten day chunk than a bunch of one day trips spread out. So I always do try to do it that way now.
00:27:19 · Sam Altman, Ty Morse
[00:27:19] S1: I definitely got to this point near the end where I was, like, hunting down the days till I could be home. I was just like, alright. Because each day was, like, it was, like, you know, fourteen hours of, like, nonstop. And I'm, like, not an extroverted person. I You was meeting, like, hundreds of people a day in some cases. And, like, tensions lowered by the end of it, but at the beginning, like, the world was, like, very nervous. And and then, like, you know, I think once... It just, like, it did calm down. I think one thing that helped is it was clear that, like, I knew when I was going to get home and I knew I was going have to do it again for a while. I've done smaller ones since. Probably do, like, something like that once or twice a year. But I was gonna say, like, a thing I learned is that I would much rather put a bunch of international travel together in, a seven or ten day chunk than a bunch of one day trips spread out. So I always do try to do it that way now. [00:28:17] S0: I think a lot of people overestimate the, like, risk involved in making most actions. Like, there is a lot of risk if you're just, you know, buying a bunch of call options on Robinhood, but there's probably a lot less risk on getting on planes and stuff. What have been the best examples of times where you basically did something that seemed really risky to other people, but you knew wasn't or you believed wasn't? [00:28:42] S1: I guess the obvious example would be, like, I I was I was extremely high conviction when I buying a lot of compute.
00:28:42 · Sam Altman, Ty Morse
[00:28:42] S1: I guess the obvious example would be, like, I I was I was extremely high conviction when I buying a lot of compute. [00:28:47] S0: You ever seen the meme everything's high risk if you're a pussy? [00:28:50] S1: No. Good meme. I spend a lot of time trying to talk to people about why they think a specific decision is high risk or low risk. And I have found that just getting people to speak about it out loud will often at least get through their intellectual blocks in either direction because people are usually wrong one way or the other. Not always the emotional part of it, but sometimes also. [00:29:16] S0: If you had to think through one of these meetings where someone is, like, firmly against some decision that you want to do, what is the most effective way to kind of help them see what you see? [00:29:29] S1: I don't think I'm very good at this, to be honest. I think, like, the right answer is to spend a lot of time really trying to explain it and get people there. And I actually think I used to be better at that. And as life has gotten so busy, I'm more just like I get upset or frustrated or say this is what we're gonna do. I don't I don't think it's like a positive trait, and I would like to get back to more of the like, let's really talk it through. [00:29:53] S0: You said that you used to be much harder to work with, I don't know, two thousand eight, nine, ten, somewhere around there, than you are today.
00:29:53 · Ty Morse, Sam Altman
[00:29:53] S0: You said that you used to be much harder to work with, I don't know, two thousand eight, nine, ten, somewhere around there, than you are today. [00:30:01] S1: I I don't know if people describe me as fun to work with. I... Like, interesting to work with, like, effective, ambition raising, like, very mission focused, but, like, day to day, like, really fun to work with. I don't think I'm, like, a particularly fun person in general. [00:30:19] S0: I feel like if you are having a good time, it's... Tends to be infectious. And I think if you are generally working on things that you wanna work on, it is having a good time. Maybe I'm wrong. I mean, you [00:30:32] S1: could go ask a bunch of people I work with. I'm not I'm not... I I don't I don't think you would get, like, a resounding fun to work with. [00:30:38] S0: Maybe not that language. [00:30:39] S1: I think people would say stuff like creative solutions to problems, new insights, like, high level of ambition, like, got me to do something I didn't think I could do, that kind of thing. [00:30:52] S0: What does it typically look like when you go into a meeting with someone and you realize that they are not ambitious enough and you need to try to help them become more ambitious?