Generating Alpha Podcast
00:36:04 · Michael Anders, Amir Fischer
[00:36:04] S1: Yeah. So first of all, the interviewing process at Iconiq is pretty extensive. And if the candidate makes it through the initial screening process, then there's a lot of time invested in the recruiting process. And it is very much about that. Our values are humility, diversity, thinking about uncommon care, and of course, listening. And so as we interview, and there's obviously multiple, multiple interviews that happen for any one candidate, There's a lot of collaboration around that interview process, but we are very much trying to hone in on that. Obviously, Iconiq's gotten to be a large firm. We have close to 600 employees. We have offices in Palo Alto, San Francisco, New York, London, Singapore. And depending upon the roles, there's a greater need for listening than others. But to your point, it is important for us to ascertain how curious is someone, someone, how interested in learning are they, and are they a great listener. And that is pretty easy to come by in the interview process, especially as thorough as the process is for us. [00:37:27] S0: And you made the point that this collective wisdom helps you shape your view on the world. So what perspective on the world and its future have you gained from your clients that shaped how you think today in this environment?
00:37:39 · Michael Anders
[00:37:39] S1: Yeah. Well, I think it's come in lots of different forms. And over the last few, I would say, investment cycles, obviously having a number of CEOs in 2,007, 2008, 2009 was very instrumental in us understanding where the consumer was, where consumer spending was going, and in real where estate and how interest rates were being affected. So that was a moment in time. I think a lot of investment team themes around private credit, and we were very early on in that, post the financial recession, which was a theme that we played because you were getting paid so much to lend to these middle market businesses. I think even through COVID, there was a lot of opportunity for us to create investment opportunities in middle market, private credit, structured credit that served us really well during that period of time. I think this moment in time is a particularly challenging time. And I actually would be the first to say anybody who speaks with certainty and conviction, I would run away from. We have not seen a period of transition like this happen this fast, I think, ever since the Industrial Revolution, which was over the course of one hundred and fifty years. And so the combination of the shifts in geopolitics right now, the current change right now in tone around our country and our allies, coupled with what AI is going to do, both positive and challenges, are things we're paying very close attention to. And we feel quite lucky that on the one hand, we have a number of CEOs of traditional businesses who we're in touch with all the time, understanding how they're embracing AI, how they're thinking about hiring, how they're thinking about job retooling. And on the other hand, we have a number of tech founders in and around AI itself and the making of these companies. And so the ability to sit in a room and understand how healthcare may be affected by AI, how the automotive industry is going to be affected by AI, as well as ties to world leaders who are helping us think through what tariffs mean, what does job relocation mean. So, is as complicated of an environment as possible. And I think we've done a really good job over the years of building a very, very senior investment team internally, but certainly aided by direct ties to some of the folks shaping both policy and outcomes of business.
00:40:46 · Amir Fischer
[00:40:46] S0: And you just spoke about the perspective that your clients have given you surrounding the world today. But overall, what are the most important lessons you think you've learned from your clients? And on the other side, what do you think are the most valuable lessons your clients have learned from you guys?
00:40:59 · Michael Anders
[00:40:59] S1: I don't know what our clients have learned from us, but we certainly have learned from our clients about collaboration, curiosity, partnership, humility. We, for some reason, feel a deep sense of gratitude and luck, not only have surrounded ourselves with a client base that is exceptionally smart and relevant, but our clients are exceptionally kind. And the partnership we've been able to build with them as their caddy has really allowed us to learn and grow and build a firm that we're really proud of. And so, I think there's been lots of experiences. We have a few clients that are leaders and pioneers in the financial services space and being able to call on them to think about, even with an Iconiq launching a new business, thinking about scaling a business, thinking through COVID of how do we deal with this, how do we think about going back to work, all of those things were lessons learned from a particular cohort of our clients. Thinking about technology and where it's going and how does Iconiq embed that and how do we embrace technology as a firm has been helpful. Also, ability for us to listen and learn from many of these tech CEOs and bring that over to traditional business leaders who historically didn't run a tech company, they ran a consumer company or a luxury goods company. But those companies are all becoming techified by the day. How do they embrace enterprise software? How do they embrace AI? So, we've become this natural conduit between all these currents that are affecting every side of our business and ultimately helping Iconiq itself be an interesting business that's at the forefront of change?
00:43:05 · Amir Fischer
[00:43:05] S0: I'm a big believer in the concept of building meaningful relationships and mentorships. I think if I had to describe what I've been doing for the past year or two would just be building meaningful relationships. And I think as the world goes on and on, that relationships will become more important than ever because there's gonna be much more noise and much less signal. So it's gonna be very important to separate that signal from that noise. So my question to you is what advice would you give to the next generation about building meaningful relationships and how important mentorship is for them?
00:43:34 · Michael Anders
[00:43:34] S1: Well, I think it's critically important for really the reasons you said, and I think it's going to become more and more important. I think you can't push someone to appreciate mentorship. I've found some people seek it and others don't. And the ones that seek it are seeking it generally for an authentic purpose of wanting to learn. They tend to be curious. They want to grow. Some people get that through reading. Some people can find mentorship in other ways. But for those of us who really value personal relationships, mentorship is really something that you seek out and pursue. And then I think the second layer of that is you can get mentorship in lots of different ways from lots of different people. Personally, I've found mentorship from people where I just naturally connected with. I think when you're forcing it, you can absolutely learn from anybody. But the deep relationships that have lasted, in my case, almost an entire lifetime have come from a genuine, authentic curiosity natural connection. I think that matters a lot. And then the other thing that I would say in terms of just relationship building, I think we have gotten to a place where, especially exacerbated by social media and AI, where the speed at which we move has almost pushed us to a place where we've become transactional and it's hard to avoid that. And so going back to one of Iconiq's tenants, building relationships, not because you expect something in return, but because you authentically, genuinely want to meet someone, you want to connect with someone, and you want to learn from someone, but nothing specific or transactional, I think those are the most important relationships. And so that idea of creating goodwill, of paying it forward, of genuinely caring, we call it uncommon care, I think those are great ingredients in building meaningful relationships. And it sounds so obvious, but most people don't do it. And I think that's something that we're very proud of at Iconiq is that those relationships are real, they are authentic, and they're grounded on this wanting to provide this uncommon care, this genuine interest and curiosity.