The Prof G Pod with Scott Galloway
00:06:21 · Greg Lukianoff, Scott Galloway
[00:06:21] S1: They don't, but the people who created them generally do. But at the same time, given we're talking about private companies, why do companies actually tolerate bots to the degree that they do? I think it's partially because they help juice their traffic numbers and they make it look like there are more people out there. What you have to do in that case is kind of change the incentive structure to disincentivize the benefits of bots. [00:06:45] S0: I find that in the instance of corporations, use free speech as a shield for reckless spread of conspiracy theories sometimes from bots and agents that don't represent free speech or don't represent the actual views of sentient beings. And I and I struggle with that balance. I wanna talk about... You joined Jake Tapper on CNN to discuss one of the most noteworthy free speech incidents recently, and that is Macklemore and Ed Sheeran. [00:07:14] S1: Oh my god. I hate the fact that I have to keep talking about them, but yeah, [00:07:17] S0: go You. I called them an anti Semite, which was probably, I don't know, maybe it was fair, maybe it wasn't. And that's all anyone's commenting now. No one's listening to anything I'm doing. Everyone's just commenting on McLemore. But anyways, so I apologize in advance. But you were on CNN with Jake talking about this. Why do you think this specific incident has captured so much attention? What are your views on it? [00:07:42] S1: Because
00:07:42 · Greg Lukianoff, Scott Galloway
[00:07:42] S1: Because [00:07:42] S0: I I think our views might be different on this one, especially as it relates to to Robert Kraft deciding that he he should not play it at the stadium.
00:07:53 · Greg Lukianoff
[00:07:53] S1: Well, you know, I've departed a little bit from my normal MO on this to just just to say that I am concerned about the anti Israeli sentiment. I'm not Jewish, but I am concerned about the anti Israeli sentiment that has kind of taken over, spread from campuses where I think it's it's reached a a concerning point. So I I definitely have... You know, I I admit to some bias on on this. But when it comes to my First Amendment and free speech analysis, I I basically think three things. One, the First Amendment is on Robert Kraft's side. To be able to say that you can't use my private venue in order to perform because I don't like your message is within his right to do. However, the analysis should never end there. Just in the same way that we wouldn't cheer when a bookseller decides that I'm not going to sell any copies of Ulysses, they have the right to do that. But that's not great. People don't really think that's good. But the third one's the one that I think a lot of the people who are on Kraft and the other venue owners' sides are missing, is attempts to squelch these point of views Mhmm. Tend to make them more intense. And particularly if part of the narrative is that, pro Israel people have too much, societal influence, then deciding this artist can't perform at my venue, it doesn't send a great message. It plays into conspiracy theories. And even though I'm I'm sympathetic to Robert Kraft's opinion on this, I'm not a... You know, again, I'm departing from what I'm supposed to do, but but I'm I'm not a fan of what MacMorman's opinions on this. But nonetheless, I don't like it. And I think Americans get concerned when artists are denied venues because of their political point of view.
00:09:27 · Scott Galloway, Greg Lukianoff
[00:09:27] S0: It's so interesting. I really like your take on this. I agree with you. I I see it as a private venue, and if I don't want someone in my house for whatever reason [00:09:37] S1: Sure. [00:09:37] S0: I don't... I I can say, no. You're not invited, and I don't want you here. [00:09:41] S1: But as your friend, if you decided to disinvite someone who was like a genius at who you've already been friends with, but you just don't like his one political view, I'd probably be as your friend to be like, oh, come on. Have him over. Talk. You know? And that's what free speech culture is. The argument of free speech culture is essentially free speech is useful, but it's super useful if people actually talk to each other and actually hear each other out and and do all these things that actually make free speech more useful. You're not required to observe it, nor should you be. But at the same time, I think in a in a healthier free speech culture that America's had, people would have said something more like, well, I'm not buying tickets to him. [00:10:18] S0: You know? Yeah. Just don't go. And to be fair, if Robert Kraft had called me, which he did not, I would have said, you realize you're gonna juice his downloads. Absolutely. Granted, I am... If it's not Tom Petty, I'm not listening to it. Maybe Flea would That Mac [00:10:30] S1: was my second concert.
00:10:30 · Greg Lukianoff, Scott Galloway
[00:10:30] S1: was my second concert. [00:10:32] S0: There you go. Well, you're you're a man of of great taste in music. He's just brought more attention to him, and you're right. It's probably not serving the purpose of fighting antisemitism. The the the thing I did not like about it, I'm curious to get your take here, is that people were conflating it with what's going on in the White House, banning media firms. And I saw the two as entirely distinct. [00:10:53] S1: Oh, yeah. No. These are not even on the same plane. [00:10:55] S0: In terms of AI, are my free speech or your free speech rights being violated when people strip mine, your content, and then resell it back to people? Does that have any overlap, or can we take any cues on what to do there from from theories around free speech? It's interesting because it's at
00:11:14 · Greg Lukianoff
[00:11:14] S1: the intersection of something that was very important for the success of, forgive the expression, the West, which is intellectual intellectual property is a... Like, I'm really starting to appreciate even at an even deeper level how important the patent system was for a a lot of the progress and prosperity we take for granted today. Now I also did intellectual property law for for the one year I wasn't working at FIRE after law school, and I was troubled by it in a lot of ways. And when it comes to trademark and copyright, you know, there... There's a there's a major tension there where essentially... And we're talking about copyrighted works. That essentially you want knowledge to be free. You don't want it to be unreasonably withheld. So we have, you know, copyrights expire, for example. Things go into public domain. The best argument for the AI companies is that essentially they, you know, they they they have the same access to open information as everybody else does and that they can use that. The best argument against it, of course, is that you are, in some cases, you know, stealing, information from copyrighted sources at a scale that simply wasn't practical before. But the funny thing for me is I know, for example, coddling the American mind, we got the, like, the notices of being... It was, you you know, part of trained models. And they asked me if I wanted to like participate in one of those class action lawsuits. And my response was like, well, no, I'm actually kind of excited. I'm actually pleased that they're using my contribution in order to inform what it thinks.