Founders in Arms
00:52:26 · Jean-Denis Greze, Immad Akhund, Rajat Suri
[00:52:26] S2: Yeah. So [00:52:30] S0: the question is, like, how do I think AI and agents will use cards to make payments? You know, I guess, like, one interesting thing, like, a newish behavior is everyone is using kind of Stripe link and doing payments with news and things like that where it's not even creating a virtual card. At least it does. [00:52:53] S1: I don't [00:52:53] S0: think it's creating a virtual card, but it is requiring someone to click a button. I think most people are still at the stage where they wanna click the button to verify a payment. And I think, yeah, [00:53:08] S2: most of
00:53:08 · Jean-Denis Greze, Immad Akhund, Rajat Suri
[00:53:08] S2: most of [00:53:09] S0: the way people are thinking about building these agents is don't have, like, human in the loop on clicking the button. We have an agent account thing, which is a little bit more like you give the you give the card to an agent, but you set limits on, you know, where and how much you can spend, which is another mode to do it. I I really do think people want to spend with their agents. And so, like, I think there'll be... Both of those modes will exist, like, limited use, like, wallet cards or whatever, and, like, click to spend and buy. So probably one of those of either. I'm a little bit skeptical of stablecoin as, like, the way agents pay for things. I just think cards are pretty good. Like, that'll be the most big one. You know, there's, like, some world where, like, agents are spinning up lots of other agents that they need to then pay for, and maybe, like, the agent to agent payment and layer layer is stablecoin. I haven't seen too much of that. And even then, you know, both both those agents have, like, companies behind them, so they could probably just agree to each other with money instead of stablecoins. Yeah. I don't know. [00:54:24] S1: Do you need cards? Can you do, like, little bank transfers? [00:54:29] S0: These cards have, like, a lot of protection, though. Right? Like, the reason people use cards is you can [00:54:34] S2: you can dispute them. You can change card numbers. Like, I kind
00:54:34 · Jean-Denis Greze, Immad Akhund
[00:54:34] S2: you can dispute them. You can change card numbers. Like, I kind [00:54:38] S0: of know... Yeah. Especially in The US. Right? I kind of know this and reading numbers are, like, secure things that you're not supposed to give people. So it's just like a messy process to use them. Maybe in the future.
00:54:52 · Jean-Denis Greze
[00:54:52] S2: I actually think even the problem statement is not really accurate. Like, I think there's, like, fear that people have of agents taking cards and just spending money left and right is mostly nonsensical for for, like, a variety of reasons. Like, first of all, like, just the velocity on the cards will be detected by the fraud of, like, any of the processors. So, like, number one. Number two, it's actually really hard to get the agent to do truly stupid things with money, and it's only gonna get more difficult because all the labs are post training for commerce scenarios. And so it, like, it... You know, it... You give some vague instruction where it thinks it's supposed to buy, like, a 100 Ferraris on your black Amex special, like, you know, it's gonna be like, hey. Hold on a second. You show you a 100 Ferraris? Maybe just one start? Like... And so I I just don't believe that this world where, like, the the AI is going totally crazy, at least with cards. Actually, would say, like, with stablecoin or or ACH, I would be much more worried about it because I think there's much less... There's much... Many fewer signals in the system. I think the one element that is a little worrisome is fraudsters actually doing things with cards because I think there are are less signals around agents than there are around humans. Meaning, like, when a human does something with a stolen card, it's... There are ways across websites and whatnot for it to be known that it might be a human who's both... Who's doing things that are bad. I think with the agents look all kinda the same, and so I think there's some fingerprinting that will need to be figured out and maybe some identity connection. But I think it's, again, it's the fraud problem and bad person problem and not the AI is doing weird thing problem.
00:56:44 · Rajat Suri, S6, Immad Akhund, Jean-Denis Greze
[00:56:44] S1: My bad. [00:56:46] S6: So we are building into agentically limit space, and you said, like, stable coins and all those stuff. Uh-huh. Right? So so I'm just, like, get... Like, getting a sense. Like, I believe, like, agents are gonna be the... Within, like, five years, agents will be spending money for us. Right? And in terms of cross border payments. Let's say your agent hired someone in Thailand or Vietnam, and your agent want to pay them. How they can do that? [00:57:14] S0: Alright. So the the question is, my agent hire someone in Thailand, how are they gonna pay them? Yeah. It's definitely gonna be stable points. I I guess I'm, like, a little skeptical. My agent's hiring someone in Thailand. What what is the person in Thailand doing for my agent? [00:57:32] S6: Anything. Like, nowadays, you have lots like, startups popping up, bounty startups. Right? They enable you to just hire anyone to get the jobs done and wherever, like, the cheapest you can get. So your agent will, let's say, recruit someone [00:57:46] S1: who is [00:57:46] S0: So there's, a rent to human type thing [00:57:48] S1: that goes [00:57:48] S0: to it. [00:57:49] S2: Yeah. Yeah. I mean,
00:57:49 · Jean-Denis Greze, Immad Akhund, Rajat Suri, Felix
[00:57:49] S2: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, [00:57:50] S0: in my... I I... At least right now, that behavior is, like, not that common. I would think, like, Bounty or whoever this person is being found probably will have, like, a payment system built into it, and I would probably not interact with stablecoin, my agent wouldn't. They would just go sign up and pay with the card. And whatever bank does will maybe involve stablecoins or not. But I don't know if my agent needs to be stablecoin away in that situation. Do you have a different take? [00:58:19] S2: I think the world likes centralization because it likes to hold entities accountable for things. So, yeah, you know, there are lot of reasons why very powerful interests would wanna keep some controls over exactly the scenario that you're listing in. So I think, yeah, you have a marketplace, and they're registered in the country, and they work with, you know, Visa and pay in, payout, and everyone's happy. [00:58:43] S0: I do think there's probably gonna be some use cases where, like, stable points do or especially in international context, but I think that would tend to be niche. [00:58:55] S1: Over there on the left. [00:58:56] S7: Yeah. I have a... My name is Felix. I have a question for Jean. So you mentioned that Town, of course, is going after markets like your recruiters as many people. Towards that vision... From now towards that vision, what what do you see would be the massive roadblock for you, and then how are you seeing those roadblocks and unblocking those roadblocks ahead