00:39:51 · Michel Del Buono, Molly O'Shea
[00:39:51] S0: part They're of making part of their not little, they're big moves. So a lot of people are acquiring second passports, Or they're moving to countries that have special exemptions for foreigners. So The UK used to have this. They've really cut back on it to some degree. Italy has implemented a new one that was almost in response to what's going on in London. So a lot of these countries have sort of a flat tax. You pay 100,000 or $200,000 a year, and then that's it for ten years, twenty years, whatever it might be. So there's that route. And then there's the citizenship route. Like, I want to have a second passport just in case. So many countries have these kinds of programs. So you see a lot of people taking advantage of that for sure. [00:40:35] S1: We talked about the wealth tax a little bit in the last episode. Something that has happened recently in New York is they are trying to implement the pied a terre tax for people that have a second home. And so similar to bringing up Chamath last time, Chamath brought this up on All In where he was talking about how people purchasing second homes in London, or they just need to store their wealth somewhere so they buy a piece of property. In London, it's hollowed out certain neighborhoods because no one's actually living there. All of the joy of a neighborhood and having community and people around is gone and it's now empty homes. And so now in New York, well, I don't like what that guy's doing. But in terms of New York with the Pied a Terre tax, what do you think the implications of that are going to be?
00:41:31 · Michel Del Buono
[00:41:31] S0: Well, there's a lot of things to unpack here. Wealth tax, where people decide to live. Let me throw out a few things. Okay. So first, there have been some people that left California and moved to other states, and they've come back, and this is a personal decision. But when you asked them why you came back, said, Yeah, saving 10% tax is nice and all, but my community was here. So these are very deeply personal things. I don't think you can sort of make a blanket statement, oh, well, saved 10%, therefore everyone's going to move here. So the same thing with this Pietaer tax or whatever wealth tax you may implement. People have to make a trade off in their head. Do I like living in New York enough to pay some sort of tax or not? In some places, Vancouver and Canada had this problem too, or problem issue, so if homes were not rented, they started taxing them quite heavily to sort of make sure there was a supply of rents. So you've seen these responses everywhere, but the fact of the matter is there are a lot of people with wealth, they have preferences, and when you have wealth, obviously you can do what you want. It's just a question, do you wanna pay or not? So I don't think that these small things you see are gonna massively change. It's a different story if it was outright banned, but I can't imagine that happening. Not in a democratic country. You can ban people from buying places. I suppose anything's possible. So I don't think it's gonna In London though, when they sort of got rid of the expat sort of benefits, and 100% of your wealth could come under the 40% inheritance tax they have in The UK, that caused a problem because the entire balance sheet of someone's life or worth would be affected. Whereas when you're taxing an individual asset, that's just a piece of your wealth. So it's a different discussion.
00:43:24 · Molly O'Shea, Michel Del Buono
[00:43:24] S1: Yeah, a lot of people are moving to Milan or Monaco or Dubai. [00:43:29] S0: So the question is, you want to live in Dubai to save 10% tax? And that is a personal question. If you have billions of dollars, 10% is hundreds of millions. So there's that element too. Tell me when you move to Dubai. [00:43:47] S1: I'm not going to be moving [00:43:48] S0: to No,
00:43:49 · Molly O'Shea
[00:43:49] S1: I can't handle the heat. No offense to Dubai. I'm sure it's lovely there and people are great, but I will not be moving there. It's too far. Today's episode is sponsored by VCX by Fundrise, the public ticker for private tech, allowing investors of all sizes to invest in venture capital. Learn more at getvcx.com. Some of you may not have heard this yet, but our sponsor Public just launched something called generated assets, and it brings AI into investing in a way I've honestly never seen before. Here's how it works: You type in an idea like AI powered supply chain companies with positive free cash flow or defense tech companies growing revenue over 25% year over year. Publix AI then dispatches a swarm of agents that scan every single US stock, evaluates them, and instantly builds a custom index around your thesis. What really stands out is how clearly it explains why each stock is included. And before you invest, you can even backtest your idea against the S and P 500, so you're making decisions with real context, not just guessing. And beyond generated assets, Public lets you invest in stocks, bonds, options, crypto, all in one place. They'll even give you an uncapped 1% match when you transfer your investments over from another platform. If you want to build a portfolio that actually reflects your thesis, visit public.com/sorcery, paid for by Public Investing. Full disclosure is in the description. Enterprise AI runs on Merge, the AI infra platform for integrations, agent tooling, and model orchestration, so your teams ship product, not plumbing. Mistral, Dropbox, and Drata already trust Merge in production. Start building at merge.dev. Founders scale faster on Deal. Set up payroll for any country in minutes, hire anyone anywhere, get visas handled fast, and get back to building. Visit deal.com/sorcery. Is there anything we're missing out on taxes?
00:45:46 · Michel Del Buono, Molly O'Shea
[00:45:46] S0: Yeah, I think there's one element which I think is really important to me. Super interesting thing happens when you bring two different disciplines and examine sort of the multidisciplinary aspect to it. So I kind of touched on this before, but it's like, again, you hire attorneys, they're gonna talk to you all about trusts. You hire sort of liquid asset managers, all they're gonna talk to you about is tax loss harvesting. No one is spending the time to look at the two and know enough about the two. Very few people know enough about the two to help you trade the two off. We've done some work on that, and it turns out that there are many situations where the trusts are not necessarily the right answer. They save you tax, but you can achieve the same or even better outcomes using these tax loss harvesting strategies. So I think that's where I would caution people to not just jump into one of the silos and look at all of them and be sure they're advised properly in all the different components, charity, liquid strategies and trusts, and trade them all off appropriately. [00:46:51] S1: Okay. So what do you do? How do you test a manager on that? [00:46:55] S0: You're gonna have to find an adviser that knows all these things enough to be able to trade them off. So that's the thing. It's rare quite rare to find people that have that multidisciplinary backing background. You look disappointed.
00:46:55 · Michel Del Buono, Molly O'Shea
[00:46:55] S0: You're gonna have to find an adviser that knows all these things enough to be able to trade them off. So that's the thing. It's rare quite rare to find people that have that multidisciplinary backing background. You look disappointed. [00:47:09] S1: I just, it's overwhelming, honestly. It's complicated. I can't imagine coming into this completely blind and trying to drum up like an entire life's wealth plan in, I don't know, a couple of months, if. [00:47:25] S0: That's why there's so many people who are unsatisfied with the outcomes that they have, but they only realize it years later. [00:47:31] S1: Yeah. It's tough. Because there's residential strategies, but there's also commercial strategies. And then there's also commercial strategies for where you put your money in. So if you wanna invest into a small business or own a small business and get dividends off of that, those kinds of things. But I guess to go into real estate more, how do you see this shape out, whether it's residential, commercial, those different components? [00:47:58] S0: Well, it's very different if you're taxable or not. If you're non taxable, you just look at sort of the raw returns. But if you're taxable, real estate and real assets more generally, which are assets that have cash flow like on oil wells, that's another type of real asset that's similar to real estate. [00:48:16] S1: You can buy an oil well?