00:05:01 · Jordi Hays, John Coogan, Tyler, Healey Cypher
[00:05:01] S1: Yeah. I bet I bet people that were, like, keyword hacking [00:05:04] S0: For sure. Encouraging folks, for sure. For sure, they noticed. And Panda was another update. There were a number of these updates where if this was your business, you knew. And I'm not saying OpenAI shouldn't share model numbers and version numbers with their enterprise customers or with their b to b customers or API customers. I'm saying in the actual ChatGPT app, don't tell people what they're using. Just improve it, and and let them complain a little bit all over the place when you're making minor changes. [00:05:32] S1: If they do that, they lose the companion market. [00:05:34] S0: Maybe. Maybe. I don't know. That's my question is why why can't GPTOSS fit in there? Why can't if you want a permanent model that you can run forever, like, what what why is that model not satisfactory? [00:05:50] S1: If you're gonna fall in love with a model, make sure it's open source. [00:05:54] S0: And, yeah, there's a tune it. Not your server, not your girlfriend, right, or not your waifu not your waits, not your waifu. That's that's what they say. I'm not kidding. People believe this. But but but the but the broader four o community was not able to migrate to GPTOSS. Now, Tyler, you had a take on this. You think that GPTOSS just isn't at the level of four point zero? [00:06:16] S2: Yeah. It's just not that. I mean, it's like a fine open source model. [00:06:21] S3: Why? It's just not [00:06:22] S0: But it's been eighteen months. Or or, I mean, when did GPT OSS come out? Like, six months ago, I mean?
00:06:22 · John Coogan, Tyler, Healey Cypher, John Tennant
[00:06:22] S0: But it's been eighteen months. Or or, I mean, when did GPT OSS come out? Like, six months ago, I mean? [00:06:28] S2: I also don't think people don't like four o just because it's, like, super smart. It's because it has, like, the personality. [00:06:33] S0: It has the texture, the flavor. Yes, that's correct. [00:06:35] S3: It's like the [00:06:35] S2: big model smell. [00:06:36] S0: And yes, yes, yes. And so it's been a year, and it's been a year. And so there's a one year gap where the open source community should be able to cap catch up to four point zero's ineffable qualities. It's. It's. [00:06:53] S2: Well, I mean, for a while, you've had open source models that have been, like, personality, like, forward. Right? It's like replica. Yeah. Or what was Noam Shazir's company? I'm I'm forgetting the [00:07:03] S4: name. Character. [00:07:04] S2: Character AI. [00:07:04] S4: Character AI. It's like
00:07:04 · John Tennant, Tyler, John Coogan
[00:07:04] S4: Character AI. It's like [00:07:05] S2: very similar thing. It's just personalities. Yeah. And I mean, a lot of people use those. I I'm I'm actually curious what the numbers are compared to four o of like the one shotted four o people. Yeah. But I think it's probably pretty comparable. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I I don't like the my my whole take on the four o thing was like one shotting four o is like not a good thing. Mhmm. But if if you completely kill it, how many of those people will then go to open source models that are totally unfiltered where there's no kind of oversight? Yeah. And that seems much worse because then if if if someone is saying like super dangerous stuff, then you can't step in at all. Yeah. I think stepping in at some point is good. So you like you it's like part of you wants to keep those people on the platforms, then you can have oversight. But also, you don't wanna be, like Yeah. Yeah. Continuing this. [00:07:49] S0: Yes. It does seem it does seem more responsible. I don't know. Where do you land on it? Kill four o or leave four o tucked behind the the menu options? Give in to the keep four-zero crowd. Because one
00:07:49 · John Coogan, Jordi Hays
[00:07:49] S0: Yes. It does seem it does seem more responsible. I don't know. Where do you land on it? Kill four o or leave four o tucked behind the the menu options? Give in to the keep four-zero crowd. Because one [00:08:03] S1: think of the the real real questions question ChatGPT latest numbers are 800,000,000 weekly actives. 20,000,000 of those people pay. What percentage of the 20,000,000 that are paying are using it for this companionship functionality? And that is like a huge unknown right now. And so I think my they're like they they they deprecated four o. Yeah. They got a horrible pushback from folks. The question is, did they did they bring it back because people just were really upset? Or did they bring it back because they were about to lose? And remember Yeah. The two days after every single Reddit post Yeah. At least every other was like, I could just cancel my membership. Like, I don't need this anymore. [00:08:53] S0: And so, yeah, I was I was thinking about the the Sydney Sweeney American Eagle thing. Like, that got a really powerful negative reaction. The stock is up. And, like, sales are up presumably because, like, it got a negative reaction, but it also got a positive reaction that was bigger. Right? And so I'm wondering, like [00:09:11] S1: Yeah. But in this in this case, it it could have been that four o was effectively a product that was generating hundreds of millions of dollars of annual annualized revenue. [00:09:20] S0: Yep. That was [00:09:20] S1: now And that was just gonna go away. [00:09:22] S0: It was just not like people
00:09:22 · John Coogan, Jordi Hays
[00:09:22] S0: It was just not like people [00:09:23] S1: are just gonna upgrade to a new model. It was like, you killed my friend. Yep. I no longer need to pay for this. [00:09:27] S0: Yeah. It just seems like I don't know. It's hard to it's hard to benchmark against, like, like, yes, there was, like, a big dust up that was surprising because I would have thought it'd be zero. But at the same time, like, the the the original Reddit thread of, like, bring back four o is, like, a couple thousand people. It's not actually, like, protesting in the street millions of people. Like, it hasn't spilled over all the play all over the place. Like, it's not that big. It but it does I I will agree with you that it is crazy that they even said yes to it. Like, most most companies, when consumers come to them and say, hey. I want you to bring back like, how we went on this show, and we were like, bring back the old Sonos app that doesn't take twenty five minutes to load. And they just didn't do it. They didn't listen to us. They didn't listen to us. Right? I was talking to you about Adobe. Was like, bring back [00:10:20] S1: now now that we're wearing yellow suits. [00:10:21] S0: Maybe. Maybe. Sonos, I will Here's wear a question. Sonos What [00:10:25] S1: percentage of their paying users? Yes. What percentage of their paying users do you think are paying for the product because it's a companion to them?
00:10:25 · Jordi Hays, John Coogan
[00:10:25] S1: percentage of their paying users? Yes. What percentage of their paying users do you think are paying for the product because it's a companion to them? [00:10:33] S0: Because it's four because of four o specifically. Like like, how bad would churn have been? How bad was churn? Well, it was clearly bad enough that they that they did something about it, which is the crazy thing. Because most of the time, like, when it it was typically a a a revealed preference versus stated preference. So when Facebook updated the news feed and instead of just having you log in to Facebook and go to someone else's page to find what they were up to, instead, they surfaced the news feed. They aggregated everything together. Everyone was like, I hate this new Facebook. And they went on Facebook to complain. Right? And so there was a there there was a [00:11:12] S1: User minutes probably went up [00:11:14] S0: to the did right. Go up. Exactly. And so that's why and we talked to some folks at Facebook at the time around this. They they stayed the course. The question is, yeah, like, how bad was churn? Because it it it's weird that we're still having this conversation three months out. Do you like the zombie ant fungus analogy? Jake Jacob Rintimaki was, was posting this, saying that there's this weird there's this very weird dynamic where, specifically, humans are using four point zero to protest the deletion of four point zero. And so it's very much like the AI is using the human as a host. Yeah. Like, the the a the human is the bot for