02:23:42 · Jordi Hays
[02:23:42] S1: Yeah. It truly is one of the great America Online, one of the great one of the great names in in business history. How do you think about like, I feel like Silicon Valley, like, has a sense that businesses are either in hyper growth or they're dying. Right? And there's nothing in between. And that's just because, like, the industry venture capital dollars are deployed into companies that are growing really quickly. And as soon as you stop growing, like, that that sort of source of capital is is turned off, and you kind of fall out of the headlines. But how much, like, I assume a lot like, the kind of, part of the thesis for Bending Spoons is that a lot of these businesses are just, like, way more durable than, like, the tech industry maybe gives them credit for. Because even after they're not getting like headlines in tech crunch, they can still generate a lot of cash flow for a very long time. But how how do you think about like durability of of digital businesses and and when they be can can become sort of like Lindy and and survive across decades versus when they evaporate?
02:24:51 · Luca Ferrari, Jordi Hays
[02:24:51] S5: Yeah. I would say I kinda agree and I and I will say that if anything, a business that has a lot of history, it's a lot easier to project its, you know, its future and and and make accurate forecasts. Maybe, you know, it's not 10 x, but you also have a ton of data historical records for all the cohorts at scale to know roughly where it's going. So, yes, maybe the upside is not transformative as it would be in a seed or VC investment. Investment. But if every all the stars align, you know, maybe 10 extra even a 100 extra money, but but you also know you're very unlikely to to seed melt in your hands. [02:25:30] S1: Yeah. [02:25:31] S5: Many of these businesses have excellent metrics. They're just not cool and hot, so to say. And so the the entire capital markets, particularly on the private side, not so much the the public side, but the on the private side is geared towards growth, very aggressive growth. And there's merits in that, but it also means there's perhaps an opportunity to be less opinionated about growth at all costs. We we know on our part, we we try to we're basically quite mathematical about it. We make our projections, have our own return thresholds, and then we are happy to buy fast growing businesses. We have many times stagnant businesses, decline businesses as long as the math checks out. And this has been quite good for us, not not being too, you know, thesis, you know, limited by a very narrow thesis, but actually staying opportunistic.
02:25:31 · Luca Ferrari, John Coogan
[02:25:31] S5: Many of these businesses have excellent metrics. They're just not cool and hot, so to say. And so the the entire capital markets, particularly on the private side, not so much the the public side, but the on the private side is geared towards growth, very aggressive growth. And there's merits in that, but it also means there's perhaps an opportunity to be less opinionated about growth at all costs. We we know on our part, we we try to we're basically quite mathematical about it. We make our projections, have our own return thresholds, and then we are happy to buy fast growing businesses. We have many times stagnant businesses, decline businesses as long as the math checks out. And this has been quite good for us, not not being too, you know, thesis, you know, limited by a very narrow thesis, but actually staying opportunistic. [02:26:20] S0: How are you structuring Bending Spoons? Do you have a deal team and an operational team that goes in and actually runs the companies? Or is it more of a, you know, a hybrid model where a partner who finds someone who finds the deal might be immersed in that company throughout the life cycle of owning the deal?
02:26:20 · John Coogan, Luca Ferrari
[02:26:20] S0: How are you structuring Bending Spoons? Do you have a deal team and an operational team that goes in and actually runs the companies? Or is it more of a, you know, a hybrid model where a partner who finds someone who finds the deal might be immersed in that company throughout the life cycle of owning the deal? [02:26:42] S5: Yeah. So it's actually say that we're kind of 25% private equity, 75% tech company. Yeah. So we do have an m and a team. It's actually pretty small, probably eight, nine people. Mhmm. And and they they do what you would imagine a private equity firm would do. They they create a pipeline, scout the deals, negotiate the deals. And then really probably 95% of the of the team here are software engineers, product designers, growth managers, AI researchers. And once we close a a transaction, we add a call a task force of experts to get, you know, get in the trenches with the acquired team and study things in fine detail and help with those kind of radical transformations I was describing earlier. So that's the tech tech technology company part. We almost all we do is writing software, developing and refining technologies, user experiences. And we we buy to hold and operate forever. We're not a fund, to be clear. Mhmm. More like a Berkshire Hathaway. We buy off the balance sheet if you've sold a business nor doing ten two.
02:26:42 · Luca Ferrari, John Coogan
[02:26:42] S5: Yeah. So it's actually say that we're kind of 25% private equity, 75% tech company. Yeah. So we do have an m and a team. It's actually pretty small, probably eight, nine people. Mhmm. And and they they do what you would imagine a private equity firm would do. They they create a pipeline, scout the deals, negotiate the deals. And then really probably 95% of the of the team here are software engineers, product designers, growth managers, AI researchers. And once we close a a transaction, we add a call a task force of experts to get, you know, get in the trenches with the acquired team and study things in fine detail and help with those kind of radical transformations I was describing earlier. So that's the tech tech technology company part. We almost all we do is writing software, developing and refining technologies, user experiences. And we we buy to hold and operate forever. We're not a fund, to be clear. Mhmm. More like a Berkshire Hathaway. We buy off the balance sheet if you've sold a business nor doing ten two. [02:27:40] S0: So you so is it is it fair to think yeah. You'll you you imagine AOL and Vimeo existing as companies in fifty years or brands is fifty years or both? Like, what what is the critical Business units, I will call it. Business units. Okay.
02:27:40 · John Coogan, Luca Ferrari, Jordi Hays
[02:27:40] S0: So you so is it is it fair to think yeah. You'll you you imagine AOL and Vimeo existing as companies in fifty years or brands is fifty years or both? Like, what what is the critical Business units, I will call it. Business units. Okay. [02:27:56] S5: So the the the the if a company is more a kind of a legal entity, that that may be dissolved in the future. Maybe yes, maybe no depending on considerations. But there there will be a business unit with its dedicated management team and engineers and designers. And sorry. I don't know why [02:28:16] S0: That's on our side. [02:28:17] S5: Zoomed in. [02:28:17] S0: We we we just zoomed you in a little bit for the sorry. [02:28:21] S5: Okay. I can see my baby's cradle just in the background. [02:28:25] S1: Oh, nice. [02:28:26] S0: Congrats. Have we have five kids on our side. It's amazing. Yeah. [02:28:32] S5: Mine is two and a half months old. So it's [02:28:35] S0: today in Tennessee Station. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to come talk to us. We really appreciate it. [02:28:39] S5: My pleasure. Thank you for having me.