00:47:14 · Jamie Beaton, David Booth
[00:47:14] S1: Yeah. So I think in New Zealand, you you have a lot of universities that need to build a core capability that are currently trying to do bit of everything. So I would... Rather than having all these different engineering colleges or doing engineering, I'd rather focus resources as a country on two or three of the best ones and make sure that we're actually... I'd I'd actually use government funding to bring in Carnegie Mellon faculty, bring in some top talent from offshore. I'd build some exchange programs, some of the world's top universities. I'd have some exchanges where there's online courses being delivered from Yep. You know, Carnegie Mellon, UC Berkeley Engineering back to, for example, New Zealand. I would, you know, cut departments that aren't really... That are resource strains, and I would use that capital to make some of the best departments even better, world class. I'd [00:47:53] S0: rather specific Yeah. Functionality or I... Like, so say campuses, like, Christchurch is renowned for being engineering campus, Otago is now being a medical campus. Yep. So you'd say pick the one, and it's almost within the the news... Yeah. The University of New Zealand framework, you could have the specific campus that would have the world class access to the the faculty, international and local. Yeah.
00:48:14 · Jamie Beaton
[00:48:14] S1: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. So I would I would make sure that I'm really headhunting some top professors. I think you only need you only need five or 10 amazing faculty to transform a university. Mhmm. So I think you bring in some of those guys, you know, into each school, you know, you you stop investing in a bunch of the unproductive departments, and you focus fire on the things that really help Kiwis. I'd rather we have, 10 domains where the New Zealand universities are the best in the world or or at least top, say, 30 in the world than than hundreds that are mediocre. Mhmm. Because at least then some Kiwis can stay locally and thrive. Other Kiwis can go offshore, but you don't have sort of mediocrity across, you know, a whole set of departments. That's not good for anybody. Yep. The other thing that I would do is I would actually increase the entry standards for certain degrees, and then I would... Because what you have is this horrible problem where the standards are low to get into university, so kids in high school don't try very hard. And they have... It's like a doom loop where the kids don't have strong academic credentials. They go to university. University has gotta soften their standards. You actually need to create some programs at the universities in New Zealand that are selective and aspiration and ambitious so that many Kiwis will actually work harder in high school to get in. Yep. Many high school students are pushed by incentives. Right? Mhmm. And if you make it so easy, people won't try in high school. And you see that, you know, everyone knows year 12 year 13 is very chill for many Kiwis. So I would play with the entry standards there. I would also introduce a Singapore style government funding mechanism where students can go offshore for their degree as long as they come back and work in New Zealand for, you know, a number of years. Mhmm. And you could calibrate that based on the cost of the degree. That's been very effective for Singapore. Many Singaporeans go to the world's best schools. They come back to Singapore, and then they thrive within within the economy. And then also, you know, Singapore's got some powerhouse local universities, n US, NTU, two universities that are amazing. We don't need to make 40 great universities in New Zealand. We just need one or two that are truly world class.
00:50:00 · Jamie Beaton, David Booth
But currently, I would say there's too much mediocrity across many of them, and there isn't that that to be world class and competitive. So there are a couple of things that I would do on the higher education side. [00:50:09] S0: Yeah. Sort of there... You're right. Like, there is different approaches to trying to solve what some people see as equality or or... One way, equality of access, which would say, let's make this accessible to more people, which would say, like, let's broaden, you know, the the platform or or even lower the the floor for what it takes to get in. And I think one of the things that I'm seeing across the board, doesn't matter which industry, doesn't matter who it is, where, like, the the elite New Zealanders think about, like, how we raise the ceiling? How do we [00:50:33] S1: think Totally.
00:50:33 · Jamie Beaton, David Booth
[00:50:33] S1: think Totally. [00:50:34] S0: How do we get our most ambitious people? How do we get our highest achieving people and lift the bounds of what's possible? Singapore, for example, is a really good one. And and and to sort of highlight that, the the specific example would be, you know, here are two... You know, one or two or three excellent options locally, but you can also take the equivalent government funding that you would have had if you went through that system. Totally. You can take that to go behind your education at Stanford, Harvard, whatever the, you know, the institution you might be able to get into. What's the mechanism there that if you don't come back within a period of time, you're paying it back as a loan, but if you do come back in a period of time, it's forgiven, or or is it interest free? Or what's the mechanism specifically? [00:51:08] S1: Exactly. So in Singapore right now, if you stay within your home country, it's forgiven as long as you work for a period of time in, like, an eligible job. [00:51:16] S0: Mhmm.
00:51:16 · David Booth, Jamie Beaton
[00:51:16] S0: Mhmm. [00:51:16] S1: So the student would go overseas. They would get their education. They'd come back, bring the skills back to New Zealand, and then... And they don't have to necessarily do it straight away. So it doesn't need to be, like, right after they graduate. Maybe you want two years or four years in Silicon Valley or something. They come back and they they get that loan forgiven, or they can get that loan, you know, with a favorable interest rate. So that's that's how you'd structure it. And, obviously, you wanna make sure that it's a net win for taxpayers. Right? You don't wanna be subsidizing high income people to go to top universities at the cost of the great majority of New Zealanders. But the way Singapore structured it is it's a really strong net economic gain because you bring talent back to the country, having leveled them up with global skills, global ambition [00:51:54] S0: Yep.
00:51:54 · David Booth, Jamie Beaton
[00:51:54] S0: Yep. [00:51:55] S1: They come back to build your country stronger. That's very inspiring. And I think most Kiwis, if they spend time abroad, you know, they wanna maintain connection. They wanna bring the fire back to New Zealand, and they wanna make it a better country. Like, that's what most Kiwis want to do. So I would say we shouldn't be that terrified that a Kiwi will go offshore and then run away, you know, forever. Now currently, we frankly do have an issue, I think, with New Zealand and Australia. We are losing a lot of folks to Australia, but I think no one ever survives by trapping their people in their home country and limiting choice. Right? That's always a terrible strategy.