01:20:07 · Josh Lindgren
[01:20:07] S7: Yeah. I think there needs to be a reason to be for any given podcast. There was a level of experimentation, like you mentioned, around COVID where a lot of folks launched podcasts that maybe didn't pan out. Yeah. And I think maybe some of those had to do with the the the the reason behind the podcast and the idea of the podcast, you know, wasn't as sought out. Right? I think a a good example of it working would be Julie Wie Dreyfus' wiser than me Yeah. Where that was driven by her desire to hear from older women that are largely ignored in our culture. Mhmm. Right? So she had a reason that she wanted to make it. It wasn't like she would just come into the space because, you know, some enterprising agent, myself, told her that she should make a podcast and she could make money. Right? She was there for a different reason. The things I see succeeding have that reason behind them. I mean, you mentioned Smartlist, right, another COVID, you know, project that that began of COVID, and it came together because the three of them wanted to hang out. Yeah. Right? And they wanted to create something for people who were locked at home. Yeah. You know? And it that that, like, genuine friendship between them is the basic building block of what it is. You know? A So lot of what I do when I talk to celebrities about podcasting is try and get to the core of what it is that they want to create and what their purpose is for coming, and then they can craft all the business and everything else around that, like, central seed of an idea.
01:21:27 · John Coogan, Josh Lindgren
[01:21:27] S1: Mhmm. What's the secret to a successful podcast tour? I mean, back to SmartLists, I feel like they've been extremely successful at engaging the community off of the Internet, which is interesting because they started off the Internet. They went to the Internet, and they go back into the live tour. But what what what makes for a successful podcast tour? [01:21:49] S7: Yeah. I think that your relationship with your audience is so strong in podcasting, and it depends a little bit by format. You know, I think the level of engagement for more format driven shows maybe a little bit less than more personality driven shows. But something that I saw really early on getting into this space and coming from a touring background, was booking tours for podcasts. And, you know, one of the first live podcasts that I went to is early client of mine, Stuff You Should Know, which I assigned by emailing info at Stuff You Should Know. [01:22:17] S1: No way.
01:22:17 · John Coogan, Josh Lindgren
[01:22:17] S1: No way. [01:22:18] S7: It was a really different time. But then I I went and saw them do a show in Vancouver, and they had a q and a at the end of the show. People were getting up to the microphone, and this this woman gets up to the microphone. She's like 22, looks normal and nice. As soon as she gets on the mic, she's bawling because she is talking to Josh and Chuck from Stuff You Should Know. And it was a real, like, light bulb moment for me. Right? Because that's a educational podcast. Right? But for her, she was explaining on the microphone that they spend so much time in her ears that she has this relationship with them, and it was like she was finally meeting these friends that she's had for so long. And I think that's that's when you get people who are not just willing to buy a ticket, but to travel four states over to make it to a live show. And, you know, we we look at data for download performance in a market before and after a live show, and we see, you know, in some cases, like a niche show can have a really solid touring business because they're converting, like, 50% of their listeners in a market are turning out for these live shows. And we've done analysis too where we look at ZIP codes of of ticket buyers and the the number of people who are traveling long distances to come to these is is pretty incredible. So, you know, I I think that's the key thing is if you have that relationship with your audience, if you let your personality be a part of the podcast, people are gonna wanna come out for that.
01:23:36 · John Coogan, Josh Lindgren, Jordi Hays
[01:23:36] S1: Mhmm. How are you thinking about international? Just the like like the puzzle. Because if your business is if your podcast is aligned to specific products that are maybe only sold in The United States, it can be hard to monetize. You might need to go on a tour. An international tour can be more expensive. At the same time, I'm sure from musicians that you've worked with, you've solved the puzzle of what an international world tour looks like that is successful. So how do you think, like, the the the the the future eras tour of the podcasting world will play out? [01:24:14] S7: Yeah. I think that the international touring is, I mean, you have [01:24:20] S1: It's see, it feels like it's early. Am I right in that, or am I just not aware of there was already the Era's tour of podcasting and, like, Smartlisted it, and I just wasn't paying attention to their their trip to Japan or something. [01:24:30] S7: I would say there's only one Era's tour, but you but the you are seeing a bit of international touring happening already. I mean, you know, many years ago, we sent stuff you should know to Australia, and it was such a wildly successful tour. Yeah. You see a lot of American podcasts doing The UK [01:24:43] S0: Yeah.
01:24:43 · Jordi Hays, Josh Lindgren, John Coogan, Sean Frank
[01:24:43] S0: Yeah. [01:24:43] S7: A little bit in Europe. I mean, one of the challenges is when you're crossing over into markets that are primarily not English language speaking markets where you might have listeners, but you might have a different type of relationship with them. That can be a real challenge, but especially going from one English language market to the next, it can really work. [01:25:00] S0: Mhmm. [01:25:01] S7: But you do see audiences becoming really segmented between different markets. [01:25:06] S1: Mhmm. [01:25:06] S7: If you look on any given day at the charts in The UK and the charts in The US, they're probably gonna look pretty different. There's gonna be crossover for sure. [01:25:14] S0: Mhmm. [01:25:14] S7: But a lot of different stuff changes out even though we speak the same language and understand each other very well. Yep. There's just different sensibilities from one market to the next. You know? But, I mean, you mentioned advertisers. Right? The US ad market is is a big leader in podcasting. Right? Because this is a consumer that a lot of brands want to reach. Mhmm. And so, you know, as we've built our business internationally and signed podcasters from all over the world, you know, there's still at this point a real value into having a foothold in The United States in terms of reaching audience. I think one of the most exciting feature change areas in podcasting is gonna be some seeing more of these markets come alive. [01:25:52] S6: Mhmm.
01:25:52 · Sean Frank, Josh Lindgren, John Coogan
[01:25:52] S6: Mhmm. [01:25:52] S7: And if I was, you know, an investor looking for a place to to start up, I would be looking at India right now, for instance, you know. Right? Whereas there's just a little bit less saturation and more opportunity for extreme growth. Australia, I think, is a really interesting market. I made it out to Sydney last year for South by Southwest Sydney, and it it reminded me a lot of the podcast market in The US 10 ago, twelve years ago when I got started. And so I think there's a lot more that's going to come online for those markets as the brands locally and the advertisers in those areas start to realize that this is a great way to spend money and to reach audience. But it was an education process in The US to get brands to to spend here and trust this market. [01:26:37] S1: Yeah. [01:26:37] S7: And it'll be an education process at a market by market basis.