The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch
00:39:43 · Dev Ittycheria, Harry Stebbings, Jason Lemkin, Rory O'Driscoll
[00:39:43] S1: What I will say is that I think we're going to probably see more of these deals, right? Because I think there's starting to be a difference between are you building a feature that's masking as a company or a franchise, right? And I think a lot of AI application companies will sell because a clever product on top of someone else's platform is frankly a feature. And if they can use the distribution of that larger company, have the cash and distribution, they're going to take advantage of it. I think the companies that are more durable are the ones that essentially are creating a data loop where the usage creates data that no one else has, the data makes the product better, the product attracts more usage, and you kind of create that virtuous cycle. So if someone tries to copy you, they can copy the features, but they don't have all the interactions that you have. And so I think the difference here is when you look at these kind of standalone AI app companies, is are they really feature masking as a company or are they really building a franchise? And I think the founders of ListenLab decided that this was an offer that made sense for them. [00:40:42] S3: I mean, you'd be pretty pissed off if you're into comm, wouldn't you? Sorry. You're just like, you've gone through, like, fifteen years of shit and struggle and building this business. And then, you know, Abba's answer to Justin Bieber comes along and three years later sells for a comparable number. And you're like, fuck. [00:41:02] S2: Sorry. So I know I know [00:41:04] S0: they all made money, you'd be
00:41:04 · Rory O'Driscoll, Harry Stebbings, Jason Lemkin, Dev Ittycheria
[00:41:04] S0: they all made money, you'd be [00:41:05] S3: like, oh, bugger. That was an easier route, wasn't there? [00:41:08] S2: Of course you think that as a founder. I mean, I don't mean to... There's always someone that had the easier route, and you do think about it. Yeah. Of course you think... Even at Mongo, I bet Dev thinks about once in a while, God, those... I mean, we've done great at Mongo, but those guys, they had an easier easier way with it. [00:41:24] S1: The lesson I tell my boys is comparison is the thief of joy. You start comparing yourself to everyone else, and you're gonna be very miserable for the rest of your life. [00:41:32] S3: Yeah, Rory. [00:41:33] S0: Yeah. Hey. I I I didn't do it how you you know. [00:41:36] S3: Yeah. Comparison's the thief of joy. Okay?
00:41:36 · Harry Stebbings, Rory O'Driscoll, Jason Lemkin
[00:41:36] S3: Yeah. Comparison's the thief of joy. Okay? [00:41:38] S0: Good good good to know, Harry, but that's why you're wrong to mention that because in the end, I think both companies made money. And to Dale's point, you'll step back and say both of them will go, yeah. I feel good about what I did. And you're right. It's a lot easier to do it in three years than ten or fifteen. Duh. We get that. But life ain't fair and venture outcomes are very random. More than anything, what it says is timing and the cycle is just so interesting because look, you know, we put some money in Intercom recently. Intercom achieved that valuation. It could have happened for Intercom had they sold in twenty eighteen, nineteen in the SaaS boom. And to that point, maybe we will look back. In five years from now, maybe 10% of these apps companies will have sold early. They'll have got their 30X revenue and the rest of them will be grinding it out for six times revenue at 300,000,000 with 3,000 employees and the head exploding. But you just, to some extent, you can't control the outcomes. You just got to like the process. Right. And if you end up doing well, you know, both of them have done just fine. [00:42:36] S2: I will say one thing from the Powell was Listen Labs. When was it founded? [00:42:38] S0: Three years old.
00:42:38 · Rory O'Driscoll, Jason Lemkin
[00:42:38] S0: Three years old. [00:42:39] S2: I will say as a founder, having been through the different lengths of journeys, the earliest days are always the hardest, right? They're sort of fun because you know, it's just you and your create, it's very creative like in the way, but it's, you know, unless unless you're the lucky kids these days, almost always run out of money. You don't have enough customers. It's brutal, right? But I will say if you can exit for a good price in three to four years, I'm not saying you should financially, but man, it's easier. It's so much easier to exit no matter what struggles you go through as a team, though. Because it's... I find it's five year chunks, and they take it out of you, right? I'm not saying it's a reason to sell, man, but if you can sell for $2,000,000,000 in the first five years, I'll tell them to take it. Because it's not that we don't all want to build a Mongo, we do intellectually, but man, it's just, do it in the first wave. It's so much easier. [00:43:26] S0: I don't think anyone is sitting on the call screaming, I can't believe you sold. Damn it, guys. Why would you only take $2,000,000,000 being
00:43:26 · Rory O'Driscoll, Jason Lemkin
[00:43:26] S0: I don't think anyone is sitting on the call screaming, I can't believe you sold. Damn it, guys. Why would you only take $2,000,000,000 being [00:43:34] S2: a No, no, that's big not true. We've all had VC meetings where companies like this and no one around the table says you should sell on a deal like this. Right? I had one this year at about this price and every single VC said don't sell right in that first wave. It's because there's a lot of momentum in the business, but man, getting out for that first, I know you can call it the first exit, but you really can do another. You know, the thing is you have to decide if it's generational. Are you building a Mongo or better? Then of course you say no, right? If you can get out for 2,000,000,000 in the first five years and you're not building Mongo or better, I don't know, man. I would take it and enjoy my life at Salesforce. [00:44:10] S0: It's such an old story now, but for some reason it surfaced on Twitter, the whole Zuckerberg turning down a billion from was it Yahoo or Google? I can't remember right early on without even thinking about it twice, but it is. I think the real point, Jason, it comes to your thing is you have to be kind of cold blooded. What's the likely trajectory from here? And then how do you feel about running the tape and how likely are you to get not just three times this amount, but 10 x this amount and more? And how do you assess that? Plus the personal side.
00:44:10 · Rory O'Driscoll, Jason Lemkin
[00:44:10] S0: It's such an old story now, but for some reason it surfaced on Twitter, the whole Zuckerberg turning down a billion from was it Yahoo or Google? I can't remember right early on without even thinking about it twice, but it is. I think the real point, Jason, it comes to your thing is you have to be kind of cold blooded. What's the likely trajectory from here? And then how do you feel about running the tape and how likely are you to get not just three times this amount, but 10 x this amount and more? And how do you assess that? Plus the personal side. [00:44:37] S2: I think you have to be honest if you're trying to build a generational company. I don't think that's a catchphrase. I think it's really important because otherwise you have a terminal value, a terminal state, and if the offer is reasonable, you'll never beat the net present value of these deals. This generational stuff isn't easy. I mean, Deb's back in the seat again. It ain't... This stuff ain't easy, this generational company.