00:10:45 · John Coogan, Jordi Hays
[00:10:45] S1: Yeah. [00:10:45] S0: And so... And I and I think that's what matters. Right? I think the big... Obviously, you know, the headwinds for Google is like losing, you know, people almost forget about the massive talent exodus from like, what, a few months ago. Right? Yeah. No. And... But but again, it's like as long as they can stay competitive around the cloud and and chip business, you know, there's a lot of upside. [00:11:11] S1: What is going on with this New York Times headline? Google will turn off search for schools that reject AI? Andrew Curran is sort of correcting the record here, but it it sounds really aggressive. It's like the carrot of the stick. Did you see this? [00:11:28] S0: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they're just saying... They're they're effectively saying, like, if you... We are... Every... All of our products are AI. So if you tell us not to use AI, then none of... You can't use any of our products. Right? But it sounds much more aggressive to be like, you can no longer Google search. But I think their point is that AI is everywhere across every product surface area. Yeah. And so it's unavoidable.
00:11:28 · Jordi Hays, John Coogan
[00:11:28] S0: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they're just saying... They're they're effectively saying, like, if you... We are... Every... All of our products are AI. So if you tell us not to use AI, then none of... You can't use any of our products. Right? But it sounds much more aggressive to be like, you can no longer Google search. But I think their point is that AI is everywhere across every product surface area. Yeah. And so it's unavoidable. [00:11:56] S1: So Andrew Curran says, this article is getting posted everywhere this morning. I can see why. Very, very controversial. Does the... But this decision is being incorrectly framed as punitive. There's no such thing as search without Gemini. Even if you don't turn AI mode on, you're still talking to Gemini in the search box. The old Google search is gone. Yeah. That's it's a good point. Like, I I... I'll give Google some points for, you know, this is just the way things are now, but it does sort of, yeah, necessitate like a Google search classic or something. I mean, I guess schools can do DuckDuckGo or some search engine that hasn't embraced, you know, LLM search if they want to offer that that more classic old school experience. But I don't know. Might be time to learn the Dewey Decimal system, hit the library. [00:12:44] S0: What do think? I think I think so. I think so. [00:12:47] S1: Google is not gonna save you at this point. If you're trying to learn, you gotta you gotta hit the books. I don't think you're gonna be doing that. What... What's going on with Grok bot? [00:12:56] S0: Don't know.
00:12:56 · Jordi Hays, John Coogan
[00:12:56] S0: Don't know. [00:12:57] S1: Let's tell everyone about CrowdStrike. Your business is AI. Their business is secure. CrowdStrike secures AI and stops briefcase. The Grok bot thing was very weird. So Elon chimes in on November 1, which was, what, Sunday morning, I guess, or Sunday afternoon. Says the cost of serving Grok bot was unsustainably high relative to revenue. Shields says... Elon says Grok bot costs are unsustainable relative to revenue. Computer use is expensive, but AI companies are racing to make it cheaper while giving it away for free. Thank capitalism. We get free digital labor before they figured out how to profit for it. I'm I'm... I was so surprised by this. I think everyone was surprised by it. What was your take? [00:13:39] S0: So the... I I think the current read is that they were using Opus five five under the hood. [00:13:45] S1: Oh, yeah. They're... Yeah. They're big in Trump's system too. [00:13:49] S0: And so... But but still, like, you would think that they would just eat the eat the losses for some amount of time given that given that they're, you know, they're a $2,000,000,000,000 company. Like, I think somewhere around a million, you know, weekly actives. Like, it's not a it's not a massive product at this point. And so this whole thing was just, very... I I still don't know what the read is. Like, I'm just very confused. [00:14:22] S1: Yeah. I mean, I'm just doing it back of the envelope, like...
00:14:22 · John Coogan, Jordi Hays
[00:14:22] S1: Yeah. I mean, I'm just doing it back of the envelope, like... [00:14:24] S0: Like it... Like he's he's going and publicly saying that I believe that in the future Grok bot will consume the majority of our compute. [00:14:35] S1: Mhmm. [00:14:36] S0: And then now you're saying like the cost of serving our product is unsustainably high relative to revenue? Like... [00:14:44] S1: I mean, I guess the steel man would be like the next version of Grok Bot people will be paying more for. So even though it's consuming all the new data center compute capacity... [00:14:53] S0: No. But but but, like, assume assume the sort of continuous decline in the actual cost to serve your users? Why are you... What... Like, maybe maybe maybe he was having a big night out? [00:15:11] S1: I don't know. Also, it seems like... I mean, it's not like he turned Grok bot off. He just this is just... He just denied someone a reset. Right? Wasn't that what happened? [00:15:22] S0: I know. I think people were complaining that There's not... Their usage just like rocketed to a 100% and then Sure. It doesn't.
00:15:22 · Jordi Hays, John Coogan
[00:15:22] S0: I know. I think people were complaining that There's not... Their usage just like rocketed to a 100% and then Sure. It doesn't. [00:15:30] S1: So they kind of right size the the the tokenomics internally. Yeah. It it is odd because even if they're like 10% of Anthropics revenue, that's less than a billion dollars of cost. And if they have, you know, a million people paying a 100 a month, that's a 100... Like, they're they're... They'd be losing a lot, but they have a lot of money. But I guess they just... You know, Elon's definitely one to rip the band aid off and kind of right size things and maybe just wait. Also, I... I've just been surprised at the the level of adoption, at least the level of... Maybe it's just on x, but people talking about actually using it. It it it precursor the enterprise, the power user go to market motion was a little confusing. It made a lot of sense to stuff Grok in x as like this helpful little answer bot for community notes and questions on facts and stuff like that when you're seeing... When you're reading a news article, having Grok summarize it, that that seemed like a good use case. But the idea of, like, bridging that... Bridging from that, like, the x, the everything app, it's, like, mostly for fun and mostly for, like, gossip to, like, it's in my Slack now. It was always a little bit of a stretch versus Yeah. Like, a Palantir or Microsoft or, you know, any of these other enterprise products that have more mature go to market motions. Anyway [00:16:51] S0: What's... How's Wiz Khalifa responding to the situation?
00:16:51 · Jordi Hays, John Coogan
[00:16:51] S0: What's... How's Wiz Khalifa responding to the situation? [00:16:56] S1: Wiz Khalifa had some insights and he had some wisdom. [00:16:59] S0: He sort of fired back. The work is reward. [00:17:06] S1: The work is the reward. [00:17:08] S0: I think that's because he he ran out of usage. He hit his usage limit on Grok bot. And so he's sort of reminding himself the work is [00:17:15] S1: I gotta do the work now. [00:17:16] S0: Yeah. [00:17:17] S1: My Grok bot can't handle it. [00:17:18] S0: Yeah. But the work is the reward. But it should feel rewarding. [00:17:22] S1: I like I like a pithy quote every once in a while. I I haven't seen him take over the timeline for a while, but... [00:17:29] S0: Naval's been awfully silent since Wiz Khalifa posted this. [00:17:33] S1: True. Here's an exercise for the viewer. Figure out where I am because apparently, you can listen to my audio and you can run it through some analysis and and hear the various planes with their Doppler signatures, their Doppler curves of nearby airplanes, and you can triangulate where I am. I already gave you a clue. But but I I do wonder how detailed this needs to be. I've heard that it's, like, fifteen minutes of of of clean audio. If we're passing this through this call and there's noise on your side a little bit... [00:18:12] S0: I'm assuming you're on a Zoom call, so there's some noise canceling happening naturally. Yeah.