01:13:57 · Jordi Hays, Andrew Megalaa, Max Kan
[01:13:57] S0: On, just reminded me something I wanted to ask earlier. It feels like there's a massive incentive right now for companies to come out and say, you know, we're bringing compute on prem and we're running open models and we're getting... How much should people read into that? I think the headline yesterday, I couldn't tell if it was real, is that Goldman is sort of banning the use of Claude Code and Codex internally and other coding agents. To me that seems kind of like an insane move given that they're, you know, underwriting underwriting the IPO. And it also feels like you're you're sort of betting against frontier progress and and capability increases. But, like, how should how should people think about those kind of headlines? [01:14:48] S5: I think this is really funny because... I was... Go ahead. Yeah. I was gonna say, like, it's really funny that they would do this because, like, even on our finance, like, benchmark, it was very clear that none of the models were even able to, like, successfully do a task of an analyst. Like, the closest one got, like, 50% of the credit or something. So, like, even though if you use open models, you're just, like, shooting yourself in the foot because you're just, like, using worse models. And, like, even the frontier models aren't there. Like, imagine how much worse, like, an open source model would be. [01:15:19] S2: Yeah. But I think I think on prem slash open source, it is a real market. Is gonna keep growing, like, pretty fast in absolute terms. [01:15:28] S5: But if
01:15:28 · Andrew Megalaa, Max Kan, Jordi Hays, Dylan Patel, Tyler
[01:15:28] S5: But if [01:15:29] S2: you sort of believe that the world has these fundamentally intelligence fall in that domains, which, like Dylan was explaining at the beginning, and that people will be able to figure out how to use frontier intelligence in order to sort of earn high ROI in those domains relatively quickly, then you would expect sort of the market for frontier intelligence to grow faster on a relative basis than sort of the on prem slash open source market, even if, like, both of them still do pretty well kind of just in isolation. [01:15:57] S0: Yep. That makes sense. Cool. [01:16:00] S3: Yeah. I mean, we we we do believe the bulk of tokens will be non frontier models. We just think the bulk of dollars will be frontier models. And so, like, you know, great if Goldman bans their random, you know, year one, year two analysts from using Claude Code, you know, that's probably a shortsighted mood... Move. But you know who they're not gonna ban from using Claude Code? All of their pen testing. And they're gonna have to spend a lot of freaking money on pen testing because if Goldman's not secure, that's really bad. [01:16:31] S0: Yeah. Yeah. Well said. Cool, guys. Very... Thanks for thanks for coming on and breaking it down. And I'm excited to see how quickly all of the different participants can can hill climb this. You've certainly given them a lot of work. It's gonna be exciting. See you guys. Awesome. Cheers, guys. Have a good one. Let's see if there's anything else we wanna cover. I think we [01:17:02] S7: got John coming back on. Oh.
01:17:02 · Tyler, John Coogan, Jordi Hays
[01:17:02] S7: got John coming back on. Oh. [01:17:03] S1: Bring me back. [01:17:03] S0: There he is. [01:17:04] S1: I got the flash bang, the the the weather change outside the hotel room. So it's full, much brighter than before. But you can do a three up if you want. We gotta go through a couple a couple of more news items. We gotta talk CrowdStrike. First, let me tell you about MongoDB. What's the only thing faster than the AI market? Your business on MongoDB. Don't just build AI. Own the data platform that powers it. No. I like this. So CrowdStrike's acquiring two AI security startups for a combined, $495,000,000. Fiddler AI and Dreadnode, such different names. One is, like, the most whimsical over just fiddler. [01:17:44] S0: The person who plays the violin, particularly in folk bluegrass country or traditional rural dance music, the fiddler. [01:17:51] S1: I love it. I love it. Yeah. It's it's it's funny. They're, they're taking security so seriously that they're just doing bulk acquisitions, announcing them simultaneously. But George Kurtz had a great post as well saying that he's creating the the the emergency button. What? I forget I forget exactly how [01:18:08] S0: The kill switch.
01:18:08 · Jordi Hays, John Coogan
[01:18:08] S0: The kill switch. [01:18:09] S1: The kill switch, which is something like every... I think, like, Bernie Sanders has literally asked for that. And, like, many other people have been like, we need an AI kill switch. And and the labs have said that there is, like, effectively a nuclear football, that there's a device that can, you know, take everything offline. But I think every company wants an AI kill switch. So good good market positioning, good branding. You know, people are rebranding compute... Data centers to compute campuses. Our buddy over at now the Atlantic, Mike Isaac, wants to use the term... Doesn't wanna use data centers. He doesn't wanna use compute campuses. He wants to call them data bases. The base for all the data. I like that. I'm still supercomputer camp, but... [01:18:56] S0: Yeah. We we... We've had the perfect name for decades, the supercomputer. [01:19:00] S1: I know. The supercomputer. It just sounds so good, and it even fits with, like, the new the new super intelligence push. The other news... There there... There's a bunch of OpenAI news here. They hired Dan Driscoll, former TBPN guest. [01:19:15] S0: Boom. [01:19:15] S1: We got him. US army secretary. [01:19:16] S0: This guy's deeper than I thought.
01:19:16 · Jordi Hays, John Coogan
[01:19:16] S0: This guy's deeper than I thought. [01:19:18] S1: I I I really enjoyed talking to Dan Driscoll when he came on the show. It was a very funny moment for us because it was like, we were just having fun on our show. There was like, now we're talking to the secretary of the navy or the army. Army. Oh, the army. And, yeah. The the reactions that day, there were some quote. It was being like, TBPN's talking to head of the army? Like... Because it it it had turned from, like, Us just purely joking around to, like, us joking around with, like, our friends. And, obviously, we had some very successful founders and venture capitalists on, but it was still, like, very, very, very lighthearted and and pretty low stakes interviews. Just people yapping about their their takes in the market business. And then this one was, like, so so good to see him hopping in.
01:20:02 · Jordi Hays
[01:20:02] S0: SpaceX Yeah. Has introduced Starfall, which enables affordable routine access to a microgravity environment, providing unique opportunities for manufacturing scientific research and testing in low Earth orbit. SpaceX says Starfall for biomedical research, developing advanced biomaterials, medical implants, stem cell, organoids, and replacement tissues. Tyler, you would wanna... You were looking at developing some stem cell organoids, so I'm sure that's exciting for you. Pharmaceutical discovery, growing more uniform protein and drug crystals and microgravity to accelerate drug and materials science manufacturing next gen materials and semiconductors using the vacuum and microgravity environment of space. So I always thought with Varda, like the sort of like debate around Varda since the very beginning was that like, okay, incredible incredible team, like very very unique sort of like market that they're going after. Always questions or it was like so difficult for people to even believe that like this was super necessary and and next like what would the end market even be? It just it seems so like experimental and sci fi that it was almost like it was hard to... It was much harder to get behind than like the typical like manufacturing startup which is just like we make widgets and we're gonna sell this many this year and we're gonna hopefully sell more next year and many many more in you know, a decade, right? And I always, in the back of my mind, was like, well, I don't know what this market turns into, but at least like this feels like very complimentary to SpaceX and it doesn't seem like something SpaceX is gonna do. Yeah. And turns out turns out they are gonna go compete in this category. But if anything, it just feels like incredibly validating to Varda because SpaceX just wouldn't do this unless it was like they saw it as like a a massive, you know, opportunity. Right? That was gonna be a very important part of the overall space economy. So although Varda now has some real competition, again, this just feels like a huge, like, vote of confidence in the business and the and the overall market opportunity. So, pretty pretty